We Just Can't Do IT!!!!

[webedivin2000]

After 38 years in this business I finally have drawn my line in the sand when it comes to training new divers. It seems to me that training agencies have either lost there focus or maybe just plainly lost there marbles.
How in the world can you train a person to dive in a one day pool training , group format, 4 hours in the pool and tell them they are prepared, sending them on there way with a referal letter.
Well in my area it is being done and being endorsed by the training agencies. Quite frankly the last time I checked, scuba diving had to do with learning to use Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apperatus, safely and in the water .
It now apprears to me is we have decided that diving is better conducted in the classroom and minimizing time in the water. Maybe we should teach students how to better watch National Geographic Explorer and Discovery and forget the certification process.
" We Just Can't Do It", and fairly maybe the industry should really educate the perspective student about what these courses really mean and who should take them.
My line in the sand is simple, we will no longer accept referals from these one day course people!
"I/We Just Can't Do It" in good concious and knowledge and we will no longer be part of the production mill.
A long time ago I started asking people, " Do you want to learn how to Dive or Do you want to be a Diver!!!!
Maybe the training agency should ask that same question. The loser in this is the student!!!
We Just Can't Do It!!!!!

 

[Cave Diver]

My line in the sand is simple, we will no longer accept referals from these one day course people!

 

[Wookie]

Chaz, I applaud your stand. I want you to remember back, however, to the waning days of NASDS. NASDS had the last "real" certification courses out there, with something like 11 modules including self rescue and a whole bunch of other great information and training needed to put out real, good, competent Open Water divers. I was hired by a dive shop in Maine to be their PADI instructor. The dive shop owner didn't believe in a 2 week course (both weekends and nights) and couldn't compete with other shops in town who offered a short course. Shortly after that, NASDS melded with SSI, and the whole "competent diver" model went by the wayside. I do find, however, that former NASDS "home stores" tend to produce a far better student regardless of the certification agency that they are now affiliated with then a store that was never affiliated with NASDS. The rule isn't hard and fast, but my experience leads me to feel that way.

I'll take the pledge with you. I won't accept referrals from "one day wonder" dive shops either. In fact, I wouldn't accept a referral from an instructor I didn't know, or one that I haven't had a long conversation with.

 

[Skooter]

We have all watched the agencies try to develop a class that the consumer wants, maybe if enough of us stick together we can get the agencies to help educate the consumer on the class that they need.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I am trying to do that and have been since becoming an instructor. I know it will come off as another shameless plug but if you look at the thread I just posted in the Book forum you will see one thing I am doing and will continue to do. I know what I have put in it will piss a great many people off. They are not going to want students to interview instructors, ask the questions I suggest, and more importantly get the questions about why don't they offer basic rescue skills in the OW class. Why don't they place heavy emphasis on buoyancy, trim, and real buddy procedures? And why do they allow people in the water that they would not let their kids dive with? I am sure I will get a great deal of flack. But if one person is saved from getting hurt, killed, or just ripped off I'll sleep great at night. I will take the pledge as well. Not competent? No certification. We Just Can't Do It!!!!!
nd just for the record my agency does not allow quickie courses and in fact is toughening some standards. We used to be allowed to do 24 hours pool and classroom IF we spent more time with on site instruction. That is going away. 32 hours min 16 classroom, 16 pool and the instructor is free to add and test on skills that will benefit the student.

 

[clint@uniquescuba.com]

Chaz, I applaud your stand. I want you to remember back, however, to the waning days of NASDS. NASDS had the last "real" certification courses out there, with something like 11 modules including self rescue and a whole bunch of other great information and training needed to put out real, good, competent Open Water divers. I was hired by a dive shop in Maine to be their PADI instructor. The dive shop owner didn't believe in a 2 week course (both weekends and nights) and couldn't compete with other shops in town who offered a short course. Shortly after that, NASDS melded with SSI, and the whole "competent diver" model went by the wayside. I do find, however, that former NASDS "home stores" tend to produce a far better student regardless of the certification agency that they are now affiliated with then a store that was never affiliated with NASDS. The rule isn't hard and fast, but my experience leads me to feel that way.

I'll take the pledge with you. I won't accept referrals from "one day wonder" dive shops either. In fact, I wouldn't accept a referral from an instructor I didn't know, or one that I haven't had a long conversation with.

I used to be one of those NASDS guys that was crossed over to SSI with the wave of a magic wand back in 2000. Many of us were not happy about the Merge but optimistic that SSI would adopt the NASDS Open Water Program.

That did not happen:depressed:

You are right though, many of the old NASDS stores still teach the same exact way, they just sell SSI cards now.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't mean you have to do it. You could make your course longer...of course, you may lose some business to those that are doing the course minimums, but your advertising could show the value in your way of teaching and why a little longer course will add to the students quality of diving. You making your course longer, also may opt your local competition to make a stand and put on a quality program as well.

Just because the agency gives you teaching minimums, doesn't mean you have to do just the minimum. We routinely make our courses more difficult and alter them to make them our course. The agencies to us are an advertising/marketing agency. We use their standards to build off and make our course. In the same sense, our Students aren't brainwashed into thinking they are a PADI Openwater Diver, Wreck Diver or what not....they are an openwater diver with an SDI or PADI card. They received their training from DRIS and a DRIS Instructor, not the agency. All of our classes, including Recreational, Technical, and Public safety do not just teach the minimums, and have additional info and teachings brought in by the Instructor per our standards. It sounds like you shouldn't teach the minimums either...You're the Instructor, teach your class

 

[Black Jack]

Could not agree more. We don't stick to the minimums either and state that up front. For example, we actually want students to be able to swim! One of our local shops does 1 class day (4 hours) on Monday and 1 pool session (4 hours) in a group format on Friday before going off to the quarry the next day. Our open water class is two weeks and we simply tell folks that if they want to meet the bare minimum requirements or bend the rules then feel free to go to the other shop. We're interested in training competent divers.

On a similar note, I like to personally know the shop where I'm sending my referral diver to as well so I have faith in what they are going to do. Trust goes both ways.

 

[The Kraken]

That's why I'm not associated with a dive shop.

the K

 

[saltynay]

Can you guys please take the time to list a breakdown of a "Long" open water course. I am intrigued and would like to present the proposal to my bosses to offer an extended course should students wish to choose it. Thus having our usual 4 day OW (1 day theory) (1 pool day) (2 ow days) or have a 9-14 day course students and can pay a little extra to participate in due to additional expenses involved.