Warped View of the Dive World

[MauiScubaSteve]

And FWIW - I think it's nice that the "VAST MAJORITY" diver, as you describe it, has a champion on ScubaBoard ... but to be perfectly honest, I find some of your views on what constitutes safe diving practices to be pretty loopy ... and not at all what I would say constitutes common sense, or industry best practices.

For example ... I doubt you'd find a single agency out there who would agree with you that there's something "normal" about someone with OW-only training and very little practical experience diving overheads. I can tell you for certain that the agency I teach for doesn't believe it's acceptable to dive beyond your training ... and I'm fairly certain yours doesn't either.

Comprehension, comprehension, comprehension...

Please, even including all my posts on SB, quote me where I explain my "views of what constitutes safe diving."

With regards to that second paragraph; "I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives. (Cavern, not arch)" is just a statement of what I see and has nothing to do with agencies.

Anyone who writes cold-water destinations off as "fringe" is delusional ...

Typical of the non arguments against those posting outside the SB Themes; insulting name calling. IMHO, that statement needs to be prefaced or followed by "IMO" to not be a TOS violation, and even with "IMO" similar posts of mine have been moderated here in "Basic." :shocked2:

If you can't attack the message, attack the messanger. Nice! :mooner:

... depends on whether or not you believe that Hawaii is the center of the diving universe.

I believe not. I also believe that your agency doesn't support the notion that you should find the practice of taking new divers into overheads acceptable from a safety standpoint.

Just because you believe it's OK doesn't make it mainstream. But if you, as an instructor, teach a new diver to believe it's OK, then certainly they'll want to do it.

Please, quote where I have ever even implied "that Hawaii is the center of the dive universe."

Kauai has Tunnels on the North Shore and Sheraton Caverns on the South Shore. Oahu has Shark's Cove and Three Tables on the North Shore and Makena Caverns on the West Side. Maui County has 5 Caves in Makena and The Cathedrals off Lanai. The Big Island has Suck 'em Up and probably many others. Inexperienced or rusty vacation divers have been demanding to be taken on those dives for decades. I have repeatedly searched for and not found any reported incidents resulting from any Hawaii dive operators instructor guided cavern diving.

Please, quote me where I say I "believe it is OK." I have said we do it, but I do not recall saying I "believe it is OK."

I think I'm reading what you're typing just fine. And if you really believe what you typed, then you should lead by example and confine your own local biases to your regional forum, rather than coming onto the Basic Scuba Discussions forum acting like some self-appointed champion of the "Silent Majority" and pretending that you speak for the masses.

I think you do believe, that I have personally attacked you by saying my view of the "Dive World" includes thinking of the dive scenes in less than 70 degree water as "fringe".

I lead by example in the main forums by typing "where I have dived....", "FWIS" and other relevant qualifiers. I often ask posters who did not use "qualifiers" questions relating to why they didn't use qualifiers.

Interesting ...

I got PADI OW certified with my Kauai (Hawaii) free dive buddies in '92.

....

all through this period I was really just a night bartender who saw glassy morning conditions rarely and had a total of less than 20 logged scuba dives post certification.

I started diving at age 7 in Norther Idaho, Montana, Washington and Wyoming (Yellowstone), in 1966, taught by my dad. I made over 150 summer dives with my family and our friends until 1975. I grew up in Colorado, and every summer until I was 15 we lived somewhere other than Colorado.

So which one of the above histories should we believe?

You have participated in more than one thread where I have related both of these "pieces" of my diving experience. The Dive History on my my SB Profile page has included a short version for many years.

If you can't attack the message, attack the messanger...

Your personal views are that anyone not diving in warm, tropical water is "fringe" ... and that those of us who you have so defined should confine our comments to our respective regional forums.

I think those personal views are presumptuous and rather ignorant ...

I think the "fringe" of the Dive World (those not in 70 degree F or warmer water and those not "recreational") contending that the Dive Industry is not supporting their Dive World is like a Lamborghini dealer in Anchorage, Alaska contending that the Auto Industry is not supporting their Auto World.

If the VAST MAJORITY of members could keep the local bias in the local forums, the main forums might attract more participation and actually be the fun that NetDoc tells his Mod's Scubaboard should be.

Post #84 in this thread was "hinting" at something I now see I have to paint pictures to get across;

I typed "keep the local bias in the local forums" and later I'm pretty sure I explained that using "qualifiers" is one accepted way.

If you could manage to read every word I have typed in this thread and actually comprehended every sentence, I think "presumptuous and rather ignorant" are appropriate terms for most of your posts in this thread. A better question is, are "presumptuous and rather ignorant" appropriate terms in a green zone?

 

[divad]

If you could manage to read every word I have typed in this thread...

That's asking a lot.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

That's asking a lot.

Agreed!

Perhaps Bob could just read every word and comprehend ever sentence of what he has responded so vociferously too....

 

[divad]

Agreed!

Perhaps Bob could just read every word and comprehend ever sentence of what he has responded so vociferously too....

Put down the glass pipe. You're not a genius and you're not inspired.

 

[matts1w]

Put down the glass pipe. You're not a genius and you're not inspired.

Way to keep it classy, everyone.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Diving is fun, no matter when you start your experience, most everyone will have a diving past to share that is unique. Diving maui was where I got married underwater and it was a time I thought would be a lifetime memory. Now it is not so.

Shakadoug did our video, and it was cool, with his famous bubble rings and all. I asked doug if all the diving was bare around the Island, he said yes not like other places in the world.

DerekB is a freediver that has post on here and his vids also are bare in sealife, he is diving puget sound now and a few vids of it, still has not been to some great diving that we have.

Halemano has come up with the recreational diving scenerios, but what about the spearfishing, he was freediving in 92' and it is a snorkle vacation spot that I have seen, a few divers and tons of snorkling.

Even in aruba a few divers and tons of snorklers.

It depends where you are at on what kind of dive gear you need. Diving in grece and Italy is a very attractive place to dive for sealife and there gear goes from cold to warm in the area.

So I say yes to alot of the first post, and yet Im sure others live in a whole different area that differ in halemano's anaolgy. Being a great lakes diver and lake diver, I would disagree, yet I have dove around the world enough to see that diving the planet earth is phenomenal.

And will agree that I had divers on first dive after class go down to over a hundred feet, and were just fine. They had no Idea how deep they were, they followed me and my wife and when I seen they had low air I pointed for them to go to divemaster, and then he had to take them to surface and we could continue to descend to a couple hundred feet down. What a great trick to eliminate a mandatory divemaster on a charter. So it can be favorable, its not like you will get left cause you will eat some air and be to the surface in 50 min's or so.

shakadoug is the way to go for diving maui, you will dive in a safe and secure manner, and he can take care of any situation that would come up. I cannot speak for charter dives.

Maui winds canceled our charters, and plans. So I think it is a waste of time, but they will call hotel and let you know, so you can shore dive.


Happy Diving

 

[robbcayman]

I hate to see this turn into an attack thread. Personally, I think your perceptions reflect your experiences; my perceptions reflect my experiences and so on.

I do think the vast majority of divers dive jackets. However, I dive a hybrid style that has a back wing. I dive an Oceanic Excursion, which has intergrated weights and mimics a jacket style with the only difference being that it has a wing on the back. Hence, it's more streamlined and has no jacket squeeze. I don't begrude anyone who uses something different, though.

 

[Nemrod]

Recently a prominent poster here on Scubaboard accused me of having a warped view of the Dive World.

So then, what you are saying that you are Abbie normal?

I am not sure what normal is anymore, in regards to anything. Not sure it even matters.

N

 

[bowlofpetunias]

So then, what you are saying that you are Abbie normal?

I am not sure what normal is anymore, in regards to anything. Not sure it even matters.

N

:admingreet: pick me pick me I know the answer:admingreet: NORMAL IS BORING! I have a tshirt that says so!:scorned:

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I also believe that when someone goes on vacation to someplace like HI, and they feel as if they will NEVER get to do something like the caves again, they will take that chance as to not miss it.

Are there guided tours of these cave sites in HI?????

OK, here is a great sentiment and really good question that so far has been ignored, at least by me.

For a great many people trips to exotic places are once in a lifetime trips. If they are lucky they will get to visit more than one exotic place or multiple trips to the same exotic location. Even if you know you want to come back, or even if you have reservations for next time already, life takes unexpected turns and who knows if you will really make it back?

​

tddfleming, caves and cave diving are different from caverns and cavern diving. Cave diving is considered by most to be one of the Technical Diving disciplines. Cavern diving is a "fringe" of recreational diving, under rock but within a certain, relatively short distance to the surface of the water (130' or 200') and within the "ambient light zone" (can see the opening to open water or can see without a dive light / not pitch black).

While there are some caves in Hawaii, recreational dive tours only dive in caverns. Nearly all boat dive trips in Hawaii are guided, and nearly all guides in Hawaii are Instructors, so all these cavern sites are guided, mostly by instructors, when dived by boat (5 Caves is also a shore dive).

Here are some links to photo albums of typical hawaii cavern vistas; I also call 5 Caves Makena Caverns. :cool2:

Makena Caverns - halemano's Photos | SmugMug

Mostly Second Cathedral - halemano's Photos | SmugMug

Three Tables - halemano's Photos | SmugMug

SharksCoveSwimthroughs - halemano's Photos | SmugMug

I hear there are sharks being sighted in Shark's cove now, after nearly a decade of protection (Pupukea Marine Conservation District). It is one of my favorite dive sites even without sharks!