WARNING: Jolly Dive boat captain by name of Paul sexually harassed me
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Mantra
Contributor
This is a witch hint you think? Which would mean you believe this by default to be unfounded? Given a real report is many times more likely than a fake one statistically what leads you to the conclusion this is a witch hunt?
Unverified? The mods have verified she appears to be who she says she is (bye bye competitor theory). Another poster has verified a police report was made.
Hypothetically, at what point in your opinion does it become acceptable to warn the broader community about a negative personal experience with a sexual predator in the community? Specifically? What proof should my daughter be asked to provide you with before she is allowed to speak? I’m all ears.
How do we usefully support disclosure (which is an important social good) in your view?
oldschoolto
Contributor
As a private investigator for many years.. The facts are not always as black and white as you would like.. I would be interested to do backrounds on both sides..
I believe that, In her mind what she wrote is what happened.. I don't think every other woman would have a problem with it.. The fact that a (think I read, female) official said it was a misunderstanding wieghs heavy on this.. This is a crazy time and place to live .. I'm glad I'm on the back end of life..
Jim..
I believe that, In her mind what she wrote is what happened.. I don't think every other woman would have a problem with it.. The fact that a (think I read, female) official said it was a misunderstanding wieghs heavy on this.. This is a crazy time and place to live .. I'm glad I'm on the back end of life..
Jim..
Jonny Wishbone
Contributor
To shed a little light on the laws of" touching "at least here in Florida. Some language and terms may differ by state. Unwanted touching is classified as "Simple Battery" and is a 1st degree Misdemeanor. So how do you know when someone does not want to be touched? They tell you so. Im talking about and example like the guy who always puts his hand on your shoulder when they talk to you and the person being touched says something like "please dont touch me". Lets say you had an argument with someone and they walked away from you but you wanted to continue the conversation and followed behind telling them "hey wait I just want to talk about this" as you put your hand on their shoulder to stop them or turn them around. They shrug your hand off and continue to walk away and they say something like "quit, leave me alone" at this point the next touch is unwanted and meets the criteria for "Simple Battery". "Assault" is no touching involved. An example of Assault would be; Say your on a dive boat and you make fun of someones gear. It offends them and they say something like "I'm gonna knock you out boy" and they ball up their fist as they stand there saying this. You did not expect this reaction and you become fearful that this guy is really gonna do it. It now meets the criteria for a "Simple Assault" which is also a 1st degree Misdemeanor. The criteria is that a threat of harm must be made along with the apparent ability to carry out the threat and....The threat has to instill real fear in the victim. In the OP's post I believe at some point she said "no thank you" and moved away from the guy. This should have been a clue to him that anything further would be unwanted and if he touched her, it would be an unwanted touch and classified as "Simple Battery". The problem is there were no witnesses and no physical evidence. That doesn't mean it didnt' happen, it just means there was no witness or evidence to make an arrest (speaking in Florida terms) and in a case of no witness or evidence, the accused walks free. "Harassment" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person. Sounds like he was guilty of this too. "Stalking" is a person who willfully maliciously and repeatedly follows or Harasses another person. Also guilty of this. If there were witnesses this guy could be facing 3 or 4 charges (in Florida), all 1st degree Misdemeanors but hey, enough small teeth will tear you up too. Also thinking that too bad this story didn't have a different ending like the boat rocked or rolled from the waves and she "accidentally" split his boys with a knee or a pony bottle.(mmm...another use for a pony bottle). Wouldn't have been any witnesses for that either, just sayin. I do believe however, that in a small country or area where everyone knows everyone, without any evidence, it will most likely be shrugged off as "blown out of proportion" for the sake of the local business owner who helps bring money / tourists to the country / area. Anyway, sorry so long and I havn'y gotten any emails yet...
dlofting
Contributor
It's probably true that other women might not have a problem with what happened, but this woman did. Even if the man was only "playing around" he should have recognized that he was causing distress and stopped it.....particularly in that situation where he had all the power.
Kharon
Contributor
Don't think this is about a simple tap on the shoulder. Add the explicit language and even a tap on the shoulder is an assault. Look at this from a different perspective.
Imagine you are in prison and another inmate, twice your size and strength cornered you where you couldn't escape and did these things to you. Where's that pendulum now?
This is not a court of law and nobody is going to jail over this incident. This is simply a report of someone's negative experience with a warning to others. The legal eagles should take a deep breath.
There isn't a way to report these incidents without certain people coming out with a devil's advocate position that implies a nefarious intent. Does it take video evidence or can we just take victims at their word because if it takes video evidence before the doubters stop attacking the credibility of young women that speak up then we are going to find it exceedingly difficult to change bad behavior. Again, this isn't a court of law.
Why do some men feel the need to say "don't forget she might be lying, what proof is there?" This seems to be a very credible incident and it is not a criminal indictment, it is a consumer report of a negative experience. It is a real stretch to think that this is a made up incident to discredit an innocent man.
Victim shaming and counter accusal is not simply a different point of view. It is a societal defect that is slowly being exposed and unlearned. In the past, these threads drew more responses that accused the accuser and those posts would have drawn likes. It is comforting to see that they don't get many likes anymore.
It is a slow process but we will someday as a society make it unacceptable to treat women without respect and dignity. As that happens, urges to sexually harass and assault women will be restrained for fear of being an outcast. When that day comes it will not mean that we can stop fighting for social justice and equality. That fight will be ongoing because our success will make it seem like the fight is unnecessary and there will always be a tendency to harm others. Civilization is a constant struggle to be civilized.
This is likely to be my last post in this thread. It has all been said and I don't need the last word. I also recognize that I am becoming increasingly preachy and while that may be ok with some, it isn't going to convince anyone that still feels the need to defend the innocence of a creeper. This thread has taken the same predictable path that they all do. It always becomes about the credibility of the original poster. That is what is shameful.
The topic was a simple warning to other women to avoid getting on a particular boat with a captain that was inappropriate with a young passenger. He holds all the cards out on the water. I can only imagine how that feels to a young woman or any woman for that matter. Until next time.
There isn't a way to report these incidents without certain people coming out with a devil's advocate position that implies a nefarious intent. Does it take video evidence or can we just take victims at their word because if it takes video evidence before the doubters stop attacking the credibility of young women that speak up then we are going to find it exceedingly difficult to change bad behavior. Again, this isn't a court of law.
Why do some men feel the need to say "don't forget she might be lying, what proof is there?" This seems to be a very credible incident and it is not a criminal indictment, it is a consumer report of a negative experience. It is a real stretch to think that this is a made up incident to discredit an innocent man.
Victim shaming and counter accusal is not simply a different point of view. It is a societal defect that is slowly being exposed and unlearned. In the past, these threads drew more responses that accused the accuser and those posts would have drawn likes. It is comforting to see that they don't get many likes anymore.
It is a slow process but we will someday as a society make it unacceptable to treat women without respect and dignity. As that happens, urges to sexually harass and assault women will be restrained for fear of being an outcast. When that day comes it will not mean that we can stop fighting for social justice and equality. That fight will be ongoing because our success will make it seem like the fight is unnecessary and there will always be a tendency to harm others. Civilization is a constant struggle to be civilized.
This is likely to be my last post in this thread. It has all been said and I don't need the last word. I also recognize that I am becoming increasingly preachy and while that may be ok with some, it isn't going to convince anyone that still feels the need to defend the innocence of a creeper. This thread has taken the same predictable path that they all do. It always becomes about the credibility of the original poster. That is what is shameful.
The topic was a simple warning to other women to avoid getting on a particular boat with a captain that was inappropriate with a young passenger. He holds all the cards out on the water. I can only imagine how that feels to a young woman or any woman for that matter. Until next time.
Kharon
Contributor
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