Vortex Question and Answer

[SuPrBuGmAn]

South, AL too, I wish it was just in FL...

 

[Parysa]

I was there this weekend with Kevin, Rick, Tommy, et al for my certification and I think that what Doc is trying to do is ridiculous and immature. Shane and everyone at Vortex are doing a great job and I really appreciate the friendly, great staff and services offered. You guys are doing great, Shane.
Paige

 

[The Kraken]

what does "sold the place out from under his own family" mean? Did or did not Doc own the property and business? If he did, then he has all the right in the world to sell it and cash out on what he built over the years and with his own hands. If there were other shareholders then obviously one would expect compensation, but one would then expect some sort of formal governance structure.

Just because some kids expect an inheritance, doesn't mean its theirs by right

Personally, I expect my father to spend every damn dime before he dies, just as I will.

Keep scubadiving and you can rest assured that you will . . .

the K

 

[timetodive]

Divers paid to dive Vortex when it was $10. when it was 15..18 dollars and $20. Even more divers paid when it went to $25.00 and more. Because there were more SCUBA divers. At $32.00 it is still less expensive than half a day boat dive out of Destin. It is the law of supply and demand that dictates price. Right now Morrison being clear and free is swell too. When the rain come the river backs up (and it will) all those divers who are diving there for free now are going to need another place. Are the divers using Morrison for free now killing the business at Vortex? The best Springs in live are free, to quote the board.

Vortex is great with the lower price. But why after years of paying to dive there should I (we) not take a thanks with pride. Lots of divers show up with gear and pay to dive...should they leave their own gear at home and rent to support the new owners? Lots of people finish classes at Vortex, must all their classes be booked at Vortex, to support the new owner? Get real!

I am not saying I will never pay the Vortex dive fee again...but the way the new owners act every diver must be on A SIDE...their side. Bull!

I don't have a dog in this fight either. I just like to dive! Free is good! Wake up AND take TIMETODIVE!

Doc didn't sell the place out from under anyone. He found that mud hole, he & his family reopened the spring & cleaned up the runoff creek. He will have his home at Vortex Spring until he dies so maybe it will be free to dive for a very long time?
Im not DOC .... not even close...I do wish him a long life and a peaceful retirement.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Shane, I just saw this thread for the first time (I've been off the 'net for a while due to access problems). I'm glad to see things have changed, and for the better. I first visited Vortex last January during a trip out here. My wife and I (both independent instructors) were checking it out in anticipation of our move here this past summer. It was a little pricey at that time, and then I had heard the price went up to $40/diver. I never confirmed that, but decided I'd find other water holes to train students in. After reading your post and the changes you're implementing, I think we'll revisit Vortex. It's nice to have restrooms and tables and air fills close by. And worth a reasonable entry fee for those perks. We'll definitely be heading out that way sometime soon and will track you down for a formal introduction. Thanks again!

 

[SeaYoda]

Divers paid to dive Vortex when it was $10. when it was 15..18 dollars and $20. Even more divers paid when it went to $25.00 and more. Because there were more SCUBA divers.

True but this has no bearing on deciding if diving free with DOC is in the best interest of divers in the future.

At $32.00 it is still less expensive than half a day boat dive out of Destin.

For the product it is too over priced. Apples and oranges are being compared for the product on sale. I would double my money and take a Destin boat ride if given the choice.

It is the law of supply and demand that dictates price. Right now Morrison being clear and free is swell too. When the rain come the river backs up (and it will) all those divers who are diving there for free now are going to need another place.

True. I use Vortex as my back-up. That is why I want to keep it in business.

Are the divers using Morrison for free now killing the business at Vortex? The best Springs in live are free, to quote the board.

No. I can choose other places to dive if I wish. The question is not where I dive, but when I dive at Vortex, is it in my best interest to take money away from the people who are trying to improve the place for me when I get there.

Vortex is great with the lower price. But why after years of paying to dive there should I (we) not take a thanks with pride.

You are glorying in a battle disguised as a reward for the past. You are taking advantage of a loophole in the present. You have no eye on the future.

Lots of divers show up with gear and pay to dive...should they leave their own gear at home and rent to support the new owners? Lots of people finish classes at Vortex, must all their classes be booked at Vortex, to support the new owner? Get real!

I am real. The use of my own equipment and classes are such side issues that they have no bearing at all on the entry fee issue.

I am not saying I will never pay the Vortex dive fee again...but the way the new owners act every diver must be on A SIDE...their side. Bull!

You have to be totally ignorant of business 101 if you believe someone should allow you to use their facilities for free. It takes money to keep the facilities up. There is no free lunch.

I don't have a dog in this fight either. I just like to dive! Free is good! Wake up AND take TIMETODIVE!

Again, you may need to wake up and smell the coffee. There is no free lunch, this is a grudge match and not a reward, and it only hurts present and future diving.

Doc didn't sell the place out from under anyone. He found that mud hole, he & his family reopened the spring & cleaned up the runoff creek.

I talked directly to Connie before the sale was final and she expressed concern to me. Where do you get your information? This was not done under the feet of the family but was not necessarily in their best interest. DOC has every right to sell his property in any way he wishes.

He will have his home at Vortex Spring until he dies so maybe it will be free to dive for a very long time?

How about a history lesson? DOC lived there for years and only let the place run down and increased the prices. Did he ever say thank you then? Did we get a going away gift when he sold the place or did the "gift" show up after his family were fired? Based on track record, what is the likelihood of your supposition coming true?

Im not DOC .... not even close

If you say so.

...I do wish him a long life and a peaceful retirement.

Me too, but he is the one rocking the peace.

 

[Bruce Tumlin]

I have been diving Vortex Springs since 1979 and have been bringing groups there every year since 1987. We have always supported the owners and management there and always stayed in the lodges or campground - not the local hotels.

Why? Because as divers, we have a moral obligation to support the diving industry as a whole. We should support any dive business that strives to promote this exciting sport and offers opportunities for divers to improve their skills and gain experience. This includes dive shops, boat operators, instructors and retailers.

There is no doubt that the previous owners and managers of Vortex Springs had the same passion that every dive shop owner and instructor has today. Who is to say the new owners will not have the same passion.

You can bet the legal sales contract is probably larger than the local phone book so lets let the lawyers do their job and keep our opinions to ourselves. Time will tell the true story of the motives and intentions of all parties involved.

The diving industry needs our support and I plan to support Vortex Springs as long as they strive to support the diving industry. It's good for instructors, good for dive shops and good for the divers themselves.

Bruce Tumlin
Instructor Trainer / Instructor Evaluator / Course Director
Tidepool Diving Inc.
Alabama

 

[docdockery]

Mr. Shane: This is Doc. Ruth and I are temporarily settled into our winter quarters in South Florida. My attempts to contact you by phone have been unsuccessful so I use this least desirable means to communicate with you. I have read the posts from concerned divers and realize that many seem to be choosing sides. This is not by my design. My concern is of course that you may have opened a public forum attracting attention to our petty differences. Initially I had no intention of offering free entrance to the spring using our contractual Life Estate’s “freedom of passage” under which your boss Lowell Kelly placed his signature in agreement. Incidentally before you came onboard it was Mr. Kelly who instructed Connie to raise the price to $32.50 despite her protests, then her negative reactions to Mr. Kelly’s refusal to continue the 4th of July fireworks displays may have cost her job. It was your refusal to honor the 9 passes I issued to our local volunteer fire department members that caused the “free diving” retaliation. I surmise your action was Kelly directed also. Truthfully Connie allowed our fireman and their families free entrance for many years, They are an exceptional group of well trained volunteers who have supported the spring and all our events in every way. Also publicly directing attention to Ed’s illegal dredging will cause you and Mr. Kelly untold problems with the environmental agencies of Florida. Again, Kelly directed I’m sure. His dredging is also actionable under the environmental clause in our contract. Ed caused the massive sand slide that clouded the spring dictating you to close for 3 days then reopening with a price reduction to $19.00. I hope this was your decision. Nothing good can come from Ed’s work. It angers and embarrasses me to see the waters muddy and have you imply “as long as the mortgage is paid we should be happy”. We live there and still own 50% of the shoreline. When we are in residence I swim every day and want the water clean and clear. We invested 33 years of our lives into developing that spring and we have had our fill of dealing with State agencies, permits, penalties, increasing property taxes and ridiculous Government Controls. We do not want it back! We have grown old and worked far beyond most peoples retirement age. Diving has been the love of our lives and we have few friends outside of the sport. Any success we enjoy is the direct results of dedicated instructors and the divers they inspire. To the benefit of all Divers I again offer to meet with you and Lowell at any time to iron out our differences. Nuf Sed. Doc Dockery

 

[Tom Smedley]

One comment Doc in all fairness. The price has been $32.50 for years. I know, I wrote the checks. I - the one caught in the middle - arguing to persuade my boss that we should still go there with our students because the convenience and facility warranted the expense.

Even today the lodging price is inflated far beyond the local area norm but we still encourage folks to stay there because of the convenience.

One concern of mine was the continuation of honoring passes previously issued. They honor mine and all my staff. If local community public service folks are being denied that is wrong.

 

[mike_s]

One comment Doc in all fairness. The price has been $32.50 for years.

I've got to agree with Tom here.... The prices were raised before the "ownership" transition took place. They went up sometime about a year and a half ago. It was $25 still in March 2006, then by I think May 2006 it had gone up to $32, before the "sale".


These two threads right here on Scubaboard can document the price had gone up to $32 by June 1st 2006.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/florida-conch-divers/144568-vortex-spring.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/florida-conch-divers/144478-destin-sandestin-6-20-6-23-a.html

Even today the lodging price is inflated far beyond the local area norm but we still encourage folks to stay there because of the convenience.
.

The Lodging is a DUMP. I can't believe the Health Department allowed it to stay open as lodging. I'm hoping the new management will be able to fix some of these problems.

If people don't have a place to stay, they are less likely to come. And less likely to stay 2-3 days, which means multiple days of paying admission to dive also.