Visual reference on anchor line

[ginti]

Having dived continuously in all conditions for over 50 years when I read posts on scubaboard I can instantly visualise what’s been said. Every scenario you’ve put forward is complete pie in the sky and nothing to do with reality. Not only have you now been separated from the wreck but there’s 2 of you and one has run out of gas.

This is not what I said at all. I never even mentioned a wreck. If your dives are all at a visual distance from the anchor line, you're losing a lot of fun, dude

In the scenario I mentioned, you are not separated from any wreck (or whatever you are diving). You are just out of gas but far from the line, period. That could be in a big wreck or dives that are NOT on wrecks.

If there is a strobe, fair enough, you follow it; if there isn't, you ascend in the blue, which depending on the situation is a perfectly safe option.

You say you now must make a free assent past possible 2 stops to make it to a breathable gas.

Never said it. I said there is at least one stop without reference: it's the one when you deploy the SMB. Since most people would deploy the SMB AFTER switching gas, there are likely (but not necessarily) several stops without a reference. But again, this is not always true - it's just a remote possibility.

All this rubbish talk to justify whatever crazy rules you’re diving by. First if the conditions were such that you could be separated from the wreck you should have a strobe out and be on a line, so there’s no excuse for being off the wreck in the first place, secondly how did you lose your bottom gas reserves that you need to depend on deco gas. Ironically all the fictitious scenarios you thought up could’ve been avoided if you used the anchor rope described by the OP. The problem with locking yourself into a system is you have to make all kinds of excuses to justify its use.

So now there is only one way to do it?

For your information, tons of tech dives are NOT done on wrecks, and tons of tech dives are NOT on a line (basically all drift dives), and in this type of diving, you MUST ascent on your own with an SMB. If you are OOG in such dives, you are automatically in the situation I described.

%%% --------- %%%

Lastly, I have never said to avoid anchor lines. I use them whenever possible (which until today has been always the case except on drift diving). I only told the OP that adding visual references to anchor lines because he cannot hold a position can make him build poor skills. I think it is better to develop the ability to hold a position without visual references, and I also clearly stated that this is NOT the way, just MY WAY.

Let me know when you want to have a profound and constructive discussion. Until that moment, dive safe and have fun

 

[Celt]

This is not what I said at all. I never even mentioned a wreck. If your dives are all at a visual distance from the anchor line, you're losing a lot of fun, dude

In the scenario I mentioned, you are not separated from any wreck (or whatever you are diving). You are just out of gas but far from the line, period. That could be in a big wreck or dives that are NOT on wrecks.

If there is a strobe, fair enough, you follow it; if there isn't, you ascend in the blue, which depending on the situation is a perfectly safe option.


Never said it. I said there is at least one stop without reference: it's the one when you deploy the SMB. Since most people would deploy the SMB AFTER switching gas, there are likely (but not necessarily) several stops without a reference. But again, this is not always true - it's just a remote possibility.


So now there is only one way to do it?

For your information, tons of tech dives are NOT done on wrecks, and tons of tech dives are NOT on a line (basically all drift dives), and in this type of diving, you MUST ascent on your own with an SMB. If you are OOG in such dives, you are automatically in the situation I described.

%%% --------- %%%

Lastly, I have never said to avoid anchor lines. I use them whenever possible (which until today has been always the case except on drift diving). I only told the OP that adding visual references to anchor lines because he cannot hold a position can make him build poor skills. I think it is better to develop the ability to hold a position without visual references, and I also clearly stated that this is NOT the way, just MY WAY.

Let me know when you want to have a profound and constructive discussion. Until that moment, dive safe and have fun

Ok I get it, just agency talk to justify course content. Nothing you described had anything to do with an actual dive. I wish people would talk about dive situations that actually happened it would save a lot of time.

 

[steinbil]

Ok I get it, just agency talk to justify course content. Nothing you described had anything to do with an actual dive. I wish people would talk about dive situations that actually happened it would save a lot of time.

While I agree that OOG situations shouldn't arise unless there is a catastrophic failure (especially for a tech trained diver), it still makes sense to be prepared for that scenario when poo hits the fan - both in terms of gas planning and skill training to be able to have everyone on the team survive that unlikely scenario.

I have read about more than one OOG gas sharing fatality where the divers chose to delay the ascent to return to an anchor line, resulting in both divers to run OOG and drown. You could argue that their gas planning should account for returning to the anchor line if they think it's unsafe to do a free ascent, but even if you're diving thirds I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that an OOG diver in panic would breathe through that third faster than you can return to the line.

 

[Celt]

While I agree that OOG situations shouldn't arise unless there is a catastrophic failure (especially for a tech trained diver), it still makes sense to be prepared for that scenario when poo hits the fan - both in terms of gas planning and skill training to be able to have everyone on the team survive that unlikely scenario.

I have read about more than one OOG gas sharing fatality where the divers chose to delay the ascent to return to an anchor line, resulting in both divers to run OOG and drown. You could argue that their gas planning should account for returning to the anchor line if they think it's unsafe to do a free ascent, but even if you're diving thirds I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that an OOG diver in panic would breathe through that third faster than you can return to the line.

But has it happened to you and what were the circumstances.

 

[johndiver999]

You can’t ascend, share gas and deploy an smb at the same time? I think I could do that and probably would if the situation happened, unless I knew the surface was moving much, much faster than deeper layers of water.

 

[BlueTrin]

I pay good money to not own a boat, not call the coast guard, and not be the captain. If I had to do all the stuff you just mentioned (which I'm sure they do given their safety record navigating the convoluted mess of a shipping channel that we have), I might as well just buy a boat? I pay to not do that.

I can’t speak to @Nick_Radov , but I assumed he meant that you should dive with an operator who is known to do what he described.

I agree that if you are buying spaces on a charter boat, you can’t be expected to do what he described, at best you could ask the operator his modus operandi…

 

[ginti]

You can’t ascend, share gas and deploy an smb at the same time? I think I could do that and probably would if the situation happened, unless I knew the surface was moving much, much faster than deeper layers of water.

Honestly, in an accident, you need to do two things:
(1) what makes you feel more comfortable managing the accident
(2) avoid other problems.
The situation where you need to reach the next gas source as fast as possible is very extreme, and in most scenarios, you could do what you suggested. The thing is that, in my opinion, when we discuss emergencies, we just need to be ready for the unexpected - imagine a person is feeling sick and you have to manage them, or a person OOG who is probably stressed, etc. Anything can really happen. It's just that these scenarios are so much unlikely (1 every 20k dives? maybe 30k or 40k?) that most people don't think about them. But if they happen, and you are not ready, it's a problem.

Now if there is a distressed diver, you may want to wait to deploy the SMB after the gas switch to avoid extra problems, again depending on the situation. If you can deploy it and it does not create any extra complication, and you feel it can help you, do it.

I honestly would not do it: in a similar situation, I want to focus 100% on the distressed diver until I am sure the situation is stable - then I shoot it, but that's really me; if it happens to you, in the end, it's your choice. Except if the current is so crazy that I may end up too far from the boat, too fast - then it's really a good idea to shoot it.

Now, let me highlight that to deploy the SMB *DURING* the ascent - you still need to manage part of the ascent without reference. So although not like in the extreme scenario I previously described (which was willingly extreme and very unlikely, but not impossible), the solution is always the same: manage an ascent without adding any reference to the line.

That is my entire suggestion, managing ascent without adding visual references to the line.

 

[Wibble]

Am curious as to how people do their decompression on a SMB and reel/spool?

Do you get to your stop, then let go of the reel/spool to bounce up and down in front of yourself whilst holding your stop free-floating.

Or do you hang on to the reel/spool?

(BTW - thanks to the mods for the cleanup)

 

[lermontov]

Am curious as to how people do their decompression on a SMB and reel/spool?

Do you get to your stop, then let go of the reel/spool to bounce up and down in front of yourself whilst holding your stop free-floating.

Or do you hang on to the reel/spool?

if surface is choppy hold line and let arm go upon and down if calm hold tension to keep smb from flopping over , I dont let go of reel - if im on a down/anchor line and its rough ill hover and visually monitor depth

(BTW - thanks to the mods for the cleanup)

yes thanks

 

[johndiver999]

If you just let the reel hang from the smb, it will lay flat on the surface. This drastically reduces the visibility; so I see no real option other than to hang down on the reel with at least 4-5 lbs of negative weight.

I always wonder at the wisdom of people proclaiming that the diver should have so little weight as to be very close to neutral at 15 feet. The need to be seen is always more important to me than the inconvenience of having to deal with a little "extra" air in the BC.