Vip +

[silverbackmrb]

I just had my tanks VIP in Austin, Texas and most LDSs seem to be charging $16.00 for this service. I asked why the increase in price and was told that they are doing an electronic check on the on the thread for cylinder stress failures. This is just a money making thing that has been justified by a few cylinders failures from a curtain type of aluminum. I deal with SCBA cylinders all the time and the only time those get checked is when they are hydro every 3 or 5 years depending on the type of cylinders. They are filled in the same manner as scuba and no problem with neck stress. I might see the justification of this test on the aluminum alloy that is prone to fail but not all cylinders or at hydro time but not every year. If this was a problem Department of Transportation would be making this a test requirement. Are other areas do this too?

 

[medical1]

Dependent on the year of manufacture of your tanks / Are they manufactured before 1988? - See Below directly from Luxfer.

February 4, 2004 — Luxfer Gas Cylinders continues to require the use of eddy-current testing devices (such as Visual Plus and Visual Eddy) to detect sustained-load cracks (SLC) in Luxfer aluminum scuba cylinders manufactured from 6351 alloy. Luxfer also recommends the use of eddy-current testing on other types of Luxfer cylinders made from 6351 alloy.

However, based upon extensive testing by both Luxfer and independent laboratories, Luxfer does not recommend using eddy-current devices to test cylinders manufactured from Luxfer’s proprietary 6061 alloy.

Cylinders made from Luxfer’s proprietary 6061 aluminum alloy are not susceptible to cracks, including SLC. This fact has been conclusively shown by the exemplary safety record of cylinders made from this alloy, which Luxfer introduced in 1988 when it discontinued use of 6351 alloy.

 

[wedivebc]

I just had my tanks VIP in Austin, Texas and most LDSs seem to be charging $16.00 for this service. I asked why the increase in price and was told that they are doing an electronic check on the on the thread for cylinder stress failures. This is just a money making thing that has been justified by a few cylinders failures from a curtain type of aluminum. I deal with SCBA cylinders all the time and the only time those get checked is when they are hydro every 3 or 5 years depending on the type of cylinders. They are filled in the same manner as scuba and no problem with neck stress. I might see the justification of this test on the aluminum alloy that is prone to fail but not all cylinders or at hydro time but not every year. If this was a problem Department of Transportation would be making this a test requirement. Are other areas do this too?

I work with scba units as well and the big difference is the exposure to salt water. I just saw a catalina tank that failed a vis because of extensive corrosion on the inside. The manufacture date was 2002. It was a store rental unit that had obviously got salt water in it. Not likely to happen with firefighting tanks.

 

[jonnythan]

You really think it's a money thing? Go price one of those machines.


Now get a job filling tanks. Dozens, or even hundreds, a day. You will see each one of those tanks as a little bomb, and you *will* do everything you can to make sure they're not going to go BOOM on you.

They fail when getting filled, yanno. It's the dive shop monkey's butt, not yours.

 

[medical1]

I thought the question was regarding the + ?????

"electronic check on the on the thread for cylinder stress failures."

 

[opiniongirl]

Yes, it is an increase...but I've found cracks in the neck threads using the VIP+ where it would have been difficult / nearly impossible to see with the naked eye...probably about 4 a year - and even some which were brand new tanks.

Think of it as a defense against a technician missing a possible lethal flaw.

 

[JeffG]

Yes, it is an increase...but I've found cracks in the neck threads using the VIP+ where it would have been difficult / nearly impossible to see with the naked eye...probably about 4 a year - and even some which were brand new tanks.

Think of it as a defense against a technician missing a possible lethal flaw.

So you did the test on new tanks and failed them?

Luxfer says not to do the test on the new alloy...too many false positives.

You might of condemned good tanks.

 

[wedivebc]

Yes, it is an increase...but I've found cracks in the neck threads using the VIP+ where it would have been difficult / nearly impossible to see with the naked eye...probably about 4 a year - and even some which were brand new tanks.

Think of it as a defense against a technician missing a possible lethal flaw.

I have noticed a number of "techs" using the VIP+ machine as a substitute for a proper neck visual. Have you ever seen a crack missed by the machine but picked up by a good eye with a dental mirror?

 

[medical1]

On the 6061 alloy I've seen stop marks that might be mistaken for SLC's. On the 6351 alloy they are hard to mistake if you take your time. An Eddy, Vis+ etc machine only helps diagnose the 6351 tanks.

Here is Luxfers Opinion on the subject Luxfer Press Release

 

[opiniongirl]

So you did the test on new tanks and failed them?

Luxfer says not to do the test on the new alloy...too many false positives.

You might of condemned good tanks.

Perhaps I did...but Luxfer accepted them and replaced them, so I guess that was a chance that they were willing to take.

And as far as "techs" not seeing visuals...I can't say I've really noticed that...the techs I've trained / or been trained by / or worked with have used it as an additional way of inspecting....just like you have several tests for 02 cleanliness.

And no, I haven't had the experience of finding a crack in the neck that the VIP+ missed...I don't know how that could even be possible - unless there is a malfunction - did you inform them of this?