VDH wings in stock!!!

[rx7diver]

Smoothie Beavertail Jacket - JMJ Wetsuits

Classic style custom-fit smoothie neoprene beavertail jacket for surfing, made from the highest quality materials by JMJ in Torrance California

www.jmjwetsuits.com

This beavertail jacket is sweet, @Eric Sedletzky! Do you have one?

rx7diver

 

[Ghost95]

If I had a complaint about my 35# VDH wing it would be the length of the hose. I do use an Air2 (I know, I'm going to die) but it seems it would be too short even with a plain inflator. I'm looking for a 20 to 22" hose now.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

This beavertail jacket is sweet, @Eric Sedletzky! Do you have one?

rx7diver

I do not, but they do look cool and if I dived warmer water I would certainly get one.
If they made one in 7mm or 9mm I would buy one.
All my beavertail suits with attached hoods came from M&B Wetsuits in Long Beach, CA. but they are all nylon outside/skin inside.

 

[rx7diver]

If I had a complaint about my 35# VDH wing it would be the length of the hose. I do use an Air2 (I know, I'm going to die) but it seems it would be too short even with a plain inflator. I'm looking for a 20 to 22" hose now.

Have you tried the 19? By my estimation, the 19" corrugated hose should be long enough, whether you're using a "K" power inflator or an AIR 2, if you're diving a VDH classic plate and a double-hose reg. Two posters above seem to agree. Besides, VDH doesn't offer anything longer.

I intend to dive my rig solo. But, I decided to configure it so that I have the option of using it if a dive op insists on buddy diving. So, I attached one of my old Scubapro Balanced Adjustables as my "safe second." Otherwise, I, too, would be using my AIR 2.

rx7diver

 

[Ghost95]

Have you tried the 19? By my estimation, the 19" corrugated hose should be long enough, whether you're using a "K" power inflator or an AIR 2, if you're diving a VDH classic plate and a double-hose reg. Two posters above seem to agree. Besides, VDH doesn't offer anything longer.

I intend to dive my rig solo. But, I decided to configure it so that I have the option of using it if a dive op insists on buddy diving. So, I attached one of my old Scubapro Balanced Adjustables as my "safe second." Otherwise, I, too, would be using my AIR 2.

rx7diver

No, i haven't ordered a hose yet but the one it came with keeps the inflator almost right by my face. I do dive the VDH style plate, sometimes with a doublehose.

How high do you usually set the wing/harness? Got any pictures for reference? I may just be set wrong but the trim is almost perfect diving.

 

[rx7diver]

No, i haven't ordered a hose yet but the one it came with keeps the inflator almost right by my face. I do dive the VDH style plate, sometimes with a doublehose.

How high do you usually set the wing/harness? Got any pictures for reference? I may just be set wrong but the trim is almost perfect diving.

@Ghost95,

I pulled the image below a while ago from the Vintage Double Hose website. I think @Nemrod posted it there. When prone, I think my rig sits like this. Maybe a bit higher. I cross my shoulder straps behind my head, which tends to "fix" the height for me. And my cylinder moves up a small bit when I wear a wetsuit.

My OMS/Faber LP66 (~22" length) seems the perfect length for wearing my rig like this. My old-school PST 72 (~25" length) works fine, though (for me).

rx7diver

 

[Ghost95]

@Ghost95,

I pulled the image below a while ago from the Vintage Double Hose website. I think @Nemrod posted it there. When prone, I think my rig sits like this. Maybe a bit higher. I cross my shoulder straps behind my head, which tends to "fix" the height for me. And my cylinder moves up a small bit when I wear a wetsuit.

My OMS/Faber LP66 (~22" length) seems the perfect length for wearing my rig like this. My old-school PST 72 (~25" length) works fine, though (for me).

rx7diver

View attachment 733126

Yep. That's about where i wear my tank, maybe a little higher with a single hose, but that puts the VDH wing so low that the inflator house is short. The 22" house might be fine. I can always bungee my Air McDoodle in place if it seems to long.

I do love the wing though. It's awesome!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

@Ghost95,

I pulled the image below a while ago from the Vintage Double Hose website. I think @Nemrod posted it there. When prone, I think my rig sits like this. Maybe a bit higher. I cross my shoulder straps behind my head, which tends to "fix" the height for me. And my cylinder moves up a small bit when I wear a wetsuit.

My OMS/Faber LP66 (~22" length) seems the perfect length for wearing my rig like this. My old-school PST 72 (~25" length) works fine, though (for me).

rx7diver

View attachment 733126

I think this became the fundamental problem that finally made the double hose obsolete (not for the vintage scene, but for the general diving industry)
was the positioning factor. Double hose regs are awesome in so many ways but one way that they lack is in their sensitivity to positioning in relation of the mouthpiece and the reg body itself. The whole thinking behind having the reg can needing to be as close as possible to the lungs and low in order to breathe correctly is something that I’m confused about, let me explain.
So, I have done all sorts of circus tricks in the deep end of a pool with my old DA Aquamaster. Ditch and dons, everything they teach in the “New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving” which includes (IIRC) holding the tank straight out in front of you whilst breathing off the reg. This is actually part of the ditch and don exercise because you flip the tank on over your head. I noticed that raising the tank so the reg can is above the mouthpiece there reg begins to breathe hard. Lowering the tank so the reg can is lower than the mouthpiece and the reg breathes easier, lower it even more and the reg will freeflow and start force feeding you air. So with this test in mind, the tank is three feet away from your lungs, no where near your lungs, you’re holding it out in front of you, so how does positioning in relation to close proximity to your lungs have anything to do with ease of breathing? I don’t think it does. Ease of breathing has to do with the level of the mouthpiece in relation to the level of the reg can regardless of where the tank is sitting on your body.
This brings me to the next problem.
I have tried for years to come up with a solution to the positioning issue with double hose regs. In order to get the tank low enough so that the reg can is closer in height to the mouthpiece the tank has to go very low and the diver actually needs to dive at a l slight upward angle with chin up in order for the mouthpiece to get anywhere near the same level as the can. I noticed that swimming flat and rocking my right body side up the reg begins to breathe better because the mouthpiece is more level to the can. Again, has nothing to do with how close the can is to your lungs in physical proximity.
I ended up resigning to the fact that there really was no perfect way to line up the tank reg and wing to achieve the perfect height for double hose regs. I used to dive my DH on one of my plates so low that I was only using the lower cam band to hold the tank on and no wing. There was o way I could get the wing on too so I just dived with no BC. I can’t see a way to put a wing on any plate or line it up with the tank so that you can use a double hose at the proper height. The wing is just plain too low. Look at the illustration of the diver with tank positioning and look at how low the top of the tank is sitting, there is no way anybody would be wearing a tank that low nowadays and expect a wing to work!
With just using a basket harness / straps attached directly to the tank total old style, the problem is the tank sways around too much and is really unstable. The straps are too long from the top of the shoulder all the way down to where they attach onto the tank. Maybe back in the day they didn’t know any better and that’s just the way it was, but in this modern age with all the BC’s and backplate technology we’re pretty spoiled by nice fitting gear.
This is where single hose regs also took over, all the positioning problems and air sharing problems were over.

 

[rx7diver]

I think this became ...

@Eric Sedletzky,

These things you describe, I have thought about, too. What I have concluded is that, when people were diving without a BC, they were finning continuously, angled slightly upward, so that the resulting vectors (from gravity and forward motion through water) had these divers traveling horizontally (more or less). Stop finning (with a full cylinder), and the diver would sink. As the cylinder empties, the angle would have to change, necessarily, I think. DH regs are located optimally per the illustration (and tuned) for this swimming position, I think.

I think that with the can located as per the illustration, a diver can angle a bit up and a bit down from that angled-slightly-up to angled-slightly-down swimming position, and still enjoy very good performance from his/her DH reg.

Since you and I both learned from "The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving", we both know that when buddy breathing with a DH reg and traveling horizontally, the donor assumes a left-side down, right-side up position for best DH reg performance, as the buddy pair fins face-to-face.

I have no illusion that my 1st gen PRAM will ever breathe as nicely as my Scubapro Mk 10 Plus + Balanced Adjustable, or G250, or (especially) D400. My interest in diving a DH reg really has to do with the how relatively quiet it is (bubbles routed behind my head rather than beside my ears), and by how fish, not frightened away by bubbles passing near my face, much more readily approach my faceplate. And I am hoping that my DH reg will be a better regulator for me to use when I am photographing U/W wildlife and structure with my new-to-me Nikonos III (a Christmas present to myself).

Being a solidly senior citizen now, I expect that I will mostly use my DH with relatively lightweight, moderate-capacity cylinders (e.g., steel 72, Faber LP66, Luxfer Al 63, etc.) solo, at moderate depths, using a thin- to medium-thickness wetsuit. Consequently, I expect to use my BC sparingly--like I was originally taught (using a steel 72 and a 0.25" farmer John and long-sleeve shorty)--you know, using it for dives that might otherwise be done without a BC. My DH + relatively tiny Argonaut 23" wing worked perfectly (except for its too-short corrugated inflator hose) for me this past weekend during its inaugural open water dive, a very shallow dive.

I am looking forward to diving this rig a bit deeper, and eventually to moderate depths, soon, once I receive and install the longer corrugated hose I ordered.

And then using my double LP50's + solid-bar, single outlet, J-valve manifold.

And then adding, finally, my Nikonos III, for both the single-cylinder configuration and the manifolded doubles configuration.

rx7diver

 

[lowwall]

I think this became the fundamental problem that finally made the double hose obsolete (not for the vintage scene, but for the general diving industry)
was the positioning factor. Double hose regs are awesome in so many ways but one way that they lack is in their sensitivity to positioning in relation of the mouthpiece and the reg body itself. The whole thinking behind having the reg can needing to be as close as possible to the lungs and low in order to breathe correctly is something that I’m confused about, let me explain.
So, I have done all sorts of circus tricks in the deep end of a pool with my old DA Aquamaster. Ditch and dons, everything they teach in the “New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving” which includes (IIRC) holding the tank straight out in front of you whilst breathing off the reg. This is actually part of the ditch and don exercise because you flip the tank on over your head. I noticed that raising the tank so the reg can is above the mouthpiece there reg begins to breathe hard. Lowering the tank so the reg can is lower than the mouthpiece and the reg breathes easier, lower it even more and the reg will freeflow and start force feeding you air. So with this test in mind, the tank is three feet away from your lungs, no where near your lungs, you’re holding it out in front of you, so how does positioning in relation to close proximity to your lungs have anything to do with ease of breathing? I don’t think it does. Ease of breathing has to do with the level of the mouthpiece in relation to the level of the reg can regardless of where the tank is sitting on your body.
This brings me to the next problem.
I have tried for years to come up with a solution to the positioning issue with double hose regs. In order to get the tank low enough so that the reg can is closer in height to the mouthpiece the tank has to go very low and the diver actually needs to dive at a l slight upward angle with chin up in order for the mouthpiece to get anywhere near the same level as the can. I noticed that swimming flat and rocking my right body side up the reg begins to breathe better because the mouthpiece is more level to the can. Again, has nothing to do with how close the can is to your lungs in physical proximity.
I ended up resigning to the fact that there really was no perfect way to line up the tank reg and wing to achieve the perfect height for double hose regs. I used to dive my DH on one of my plates so low that I was only using the lower cam band to hold the tank on and no wing. There was o way I could get the wing on too so I just dived with no BC. I can’t see a way to put a wing on any plate or line it up with the tank so that you can use a double hose at the proper height. The wing is just plain too low. Look at the illustration of the diver with tank positioning and look at how low the top of the tank is sitting, there is no way anybody would be wearing a tank that low nowadays and expect a wing to work!
With just using a basket harness / straps attached directly to the tank total old style, the problem is the tank sways around too much and is really unstable. The straps are too long from the top of the shoulder all the way down to where they attach onto the tank. Maybe back in the day they didn’t know any better and that’s just the way it was, but in this modern age with all the BC’s and backplate technology we’re pretty spoiled by nice fitting gear.
This is where single hose regs also took over, all the positioning problems and air sharing problems were over.

You could adopt Cousteau's eventual solution and front mount the regulator.

I just found this which gives a lot more info, only some of which is contradictory

Chest mounting a double hose | Vintage Scuba Diving Community Forum

Quote from New Mistral Thread: "Fourth, and most intriguing, is the potential for front-mounting the second stage of the new Mistral. This would completely eliminate the water pressure differentia

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