valve drills and cold water

[sarysa]

Saw one other thread like this but I don't think I have a medical condition, just need some advice.

I just did my Tec 40/qualifying deco dive, etc. That went fine, but what really makes me nervous is the valve drill. I've practiced them semi regularly since first diving in doubles in November. I've made improvements but I'm not really happy with the speed I can execute the drill. I've noticed that these factors affect my performance:
- Water temperature
- Exposure protection* (assumed, I imagine the crushed neoprene dry suit I always use only adds to my problems)
- Position (I.e. horizontal vs. vertical)
- Strength, since I'm fighting the dry suit to reach (handedness also related to strength)
- Flexibility, assumed

I know I've made progress because I first did valve drills in 70 degree temperatures when I was visiting Florida. Where I live is high 40s to low 50s. During a pool session it was 80s and the drill went pretty well. Marginal ocean day one where it was around 52, and then abysmal day 2 when it was 47. Those few degrees made a huge difference.

So all this overthinking aside, what exercises should I be doing to improve my valve drills? In a real emergency, I'll always be able to get into an optimal position for shutdowns and execute them without too much gas loss, and my tec instructor is not anal about it. (It's not exactly missing a deco stop) I guess it's just personal.

The only exercise I do right now is an over the shoulder curl with a weight that isn't -too- heavy. (A weight I can do 50 repetitions and feel like I've done something) There's at least a correlation with this exercise, but what else have people tried?

 

[fdog]

Saw one other thread like this but I don't think I have a medical condition, just need some advice.

I just did my Tec 40/qualifying deco dive, etc. That went fine, but what really makes me nervous is the valve drill. I've practiced them semi regularly since first diving in doubles in November. I've made improvements but I'm not really happy with the speed I can execute the drill. I've noticed that these factors affect my performance:
- Water temperature
- Exposure protection* (assumed, I imagine the crushed neoprene dry suit I always use only adds to my problems)
- Position (I.e. horizontal vs. vertical)
- Strength, since I'm fighting the dry suit to reach (handedness also related to strength)
- Flexibility, assumed

I know I've made progress because I first did valve drills in 70 degree temperatures when I was visiting Florida. Where I live is high 40s to low 50s. During a pool session it was 80s and the drill went pretty well. Marginal ocean day one where it was around 52, and then abysmal day 2 when it was 47. Those few degrees made a huge difference.

So all this overthinking aside, what exercises should I be doing to improve my valve drills? In a real emergency, I'll always be able to get into an optimal position for shutdowns and execute them without too much gas loss, and my tec instructor is not anal about it. (It's not exactly missing a deco stop) I guess it's just personal.

The only exercise I do right now is a behind the back curl with a weight that isn't -too- heavy. (A weight I can do 50 repetitions and feel like I've done something) There's at least a correlation with this exercise, but what else have people tried?

These items jumped out at me -

We might be able to help more if you could clarify the body position you're being taught as optimal.


All the best, James

 

[ajduplessis]

Four of the five points you mentioned will affect the drill IMO. Strength means nothing!!
- Water temperature
Cold water will cause loss of feel in your hands and reduce movement. Proper gloves help a lot but you can also loose “feel” (dexterity). You have to find the right balance. This is not the biggest problem IMO.
- Exposure protection* (assumed, I imagine the crushed neoprene dry suit I always use only adds to my problems)
This is IMO the one of the 2 biggest issues. Thermal protection can restrict movement a lot. Proper fitment of any suit is vital. I also noted that the suit shoulder dump also needs to be adjusted accordingly. I use to leave the valve completely open, this resulted in air escaping every time I raised my arms to do the valve. This had 2 effects, first my buoyancy became negative; and the suit "squeezed" (lack of air) in my arms limiting movement. Play around until you find what works for you.
- Position (I.e. horizontal vs. vertical)
Best position IMO is horizontal, stay away from vertical.
- Strength, since I'm fighting the dry suit to reach (handedness also related to strength)
This is not a requirement, proper technique is. You should also check your valves, they should turn without hassle. If not, strip and service them. You should only need 2 fingers to turn them during a drill. Effortless!!!!
- Flexibility, assumed
This is vital and the second most important key. I can give you some stretch exercises that will help a LOT!!! Will look them up and post a bit later.

 

[TSandM]

HERE is the single best thing I've ever read about doing valve shutdowns.

I have come to the conclusion that, apart from people with shoulder injuries or pathology, it is rarely body flexibility that is the issue. If you can reach back and touch the bottom of the two "knobs" at the base of your neck without difficulty, you should be able to do your valves. If you can't, the likelihood is that 1) your exposure protection is preventing it (common, and an expensive problem to fix); 2) your tanks are positioned incorrectly (too low, or too high), or 3) you are, as a result of the effort you are putting into trying to reach them, rearing up out of trim, thus causing the tanks to slide down your back and away from your hand.

Garth does an excellent job of addressing technique issues in the article I referenced above. For inherent body flexibility, HERE are some shoulder stretches recommended by Cameron Martz, who is a fitness guy who is also a cave diver.

 

[sarysa]

Replies...

fdog: We might be able to help more if you could clarify the body position you're being taught as optimal.
Oh, horizontal is absolutely optimal, and my instructor -is- quite anal about good trim. One of the first things he drilled me on in fact. He pointed out many available options if I need to resort to them, including loosening the harness and pulling the rig up with my right on the isolator. That said, being able to do the drill while non-optimal (vertical/kneeling on bottom) would mean an optimal position would be cakewalk. I can actually do the right (albeit strained) while vertical, but the left is a mess. My left is pretty strained in an optimal position. (though less strained than my right in said sub-optimal position )
Also, aside from just wanting to improve personally, I'm a little concerned that in exceptionally cold water (i.e. 30s) I won't be able to reach the left at all. And I haven't exactly ruled out diving in those temps.

adjuplessis: Cold water will cause loss of feel in your hands and reduce movement.
Multiple experiences during this training have convinced me to switch from my seasoft kevlar wet gloves to dry gloves. I'm hoping that will help -- dexterity due to cold definitely was a factor with valve drills.

adjuplessis: they should turn without hassle.
I think they've actually been greased pretty well. Though I've also noticed a possible correlation with the initial tightness of the valves (i.e. tightness when fully open or fully closed, and starting to turn it the opposite direction) and water temperature. It seems to be more than just related to pressure change because I've noticed this when starting to OPEN a fully closed valve. Effortless in ~84 degrees, vs. a little bit stuck in 47.

TSandM: [link]
The meat of that article is a truncated URL with no hyperlink! What is http://www.divefitness.com/html/arti...ld_stretch.pdf ?

 

[waterpirate]

IMHO it is all about the harness. You never know starting out that your harness is adjusted incorrectly, untill you have a guru help you with it. That single point made the biggest impact on my speed and execution of drills. The other thing I will tell you is that after we get our ticket punched we get lazy. I stole the basic five from those folks and added a valve drill sequence on every dive. As you get better and better it takes less and less. It all starts with the harness.
Eric

 

[TSandM]

Hmm . . . I just clicked on my hyperlink, and it took me directly to the article. The link you wrote out, though, gives me a 404 Error.

 

[ajduplessis]

@sarysa: I use a very, very thin "coat" of christolube on the valve internals, too much also causes issues. Christolube perform very well under all temp ranges. Other lubricant does not perform on the same level IMO. The stuff is expensive but worth it.

I have the pdf in question (shoulder stretch). Can I mail you a copy?

 

[sarysa]

waterpirate: IMHO it is all about the harness. You never know starting out that your harness is adjusted incorrectly, untill you have a guru help you with it.
Already done long ago. Even had it vetted by a couple experienced divers who I trust. The harness position is fine. My flexibility has always been a bit sub-par. (especially around the knees) Recently started a yoga class in hopes of improving it.

TSandM: I just clicked on my hyperlink, and it took me directly to the article.
Yep, that's fine. The most important part of the article (for me) has that truncated link. Scroll down near the bottom, "Flexibility and Training":

The movement to reach back and get a valve is not particularly natural, but there are some good excercises that will help. I’d advise speaking to your local gym, who will in most cases give you sound advice on how to exercise the relevant muscles without damaging them. There are a few I use. For example, when you reach back, you can give your arm a gentle boost by pressing gently on your upper arm with your opposite hand. The key word here is gently. There are some excellent stetching exercises to be found here http://www.divefitness.com/html/arti...ld_stretch.pdf. Other useful in water exercises are having a buddy gently guide your hand to the valves, and just reaching back and holding them at regular points in the dive, just to get the muscle memory in. Also, have some honest debriefs when you get out of the water, where your buddy can tell you what your trim was like, how far your fingers were, anything else he or she noticed etc. Feedback is essential, becuase you cannot see what is happening.

adjuplessis: Christolube
Interesting. The doubles were assembled by my LDS, so I'll ask them. Aside from getting mildly stuck at fully closed/open, though, I seem to have more trouble getting my hand into a good turning position than anything.

 

[ajduplessis]

Yip, the link works fine. I never checked it the first time.