Value of the DIR approach

[JeffG]

Come on Lynn! everybody has been taught to use turn signals when driving. How many do? I even see/hear people making statements that using a turn signal is dangerous.

People will be people, I've had Tech 2 GUE trained divers swim off by themself, I've been in the water on a lobster dive with 3 GUE instructors, and another 4 or 5 GUE Cave 1/Tech 1 or higher divers that were diving "same ocean same time". Because we all felt comfortable that we could easily perform a CESA from the 60-80 feet we were diving at. But that thinking would be by no means DIR. Some of them even following a computer...

Oops...there goes that Gennie LOL

I've seen a Tech 2 diver drop his deco bottles to the bottom of the ocean doing a bottle exchange (twice in fact) and go OOG (and then crawl up the upline hand over hand.)

Sometimes...real life intrudes on the internet life. LOL

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Speaking as someone who was almost assimilated (but my knife is too big, I used a neoprene drysuit, I dive solo and I don't stuff the ****ed hose when I am not using a can-light) let me say this ...

It has particular value in emphasizing skills, awareness and fitness. Those can easily be used in a "rec", versus "tec", gear configuration. Regretably it tends to be viewed as an equipment driven discipline applicable only to deep/dark/dangerous/team oriented dives and some of its most vocal proponents lack tact. Not all, some.

And by the way next week I am scheduled to dive solo, using a BP/wing and long hose with my non-DIR knife, to recover some lobster traps. I hope the tide, time and weather are agreeable.

 

[Vayu]

I think it will be valuable to all divers.

I also honestly don't believe that a diver in standard scuba gear that is well trained is at ANY increased risk of problems over a well trained diver in DIR configuration, the gear honestly isn't any safer. The long hose is nice, but comfortable divers can do fine with a Air2 in open water conditions.

The gear is only a small thing. I think a well trained DIR diver who is diving as trained will do well. The diver to diver comparisons will vary. If a diver knows how to plan gas for the team, standardizes equipment with a team, dives with like minded partners and can call a dive if needed I would say they are set regardless if they are DIR are not.

That said, I do not see many people around here embracing those concepts that are not DIR. I have dove with people who take a liberal approach to being in the water and it seems to be widespread. With a DIR team I know we will be on the same page about the dive.

For this reason I think it will be most valuable to the recreational diving population. They can use this approach to get prepared for that one moment when training and self control combine to save a life.

 

[TSandM]

Yeah, well, I agree that nobody's perfect, and even people who've taken advanced training can not be very good at what they were taught to do (myself included).

And there's nothing unique about what DIR teaches for buddy skills, either (although the light protocols are something that wasn't mentioned in my OW or AOW classes). The difference as I see it is that they MEAN it. Poor situational awareness will flunk you out of Fundies even if every skill is performed beautifully.

 

[cerich]

Yeah, well, I agree that nobody's perfect, and even people who've taken advanced training can not be very good at what they were taught to do (myself included).

And there's nothing unique about what DIR teaches for buddy skills, either (although the light protocols are something that wasn't mentioned in my OW or AOW classes). The difference as I see it is that they MEAN it. Poor situational awareness will flunk you out of Fundies even if every skill is performed beautifully.

Poor situational awareness flunked two students on a NAUI course I taught a short while ago....

 

[Jasonmh]

First off, if you don't think there is any, please don't post here!

I like your posts TSandM. Since it is not in the DIR forum, people can say they whatever they want. I would say that it would be better if the people who don't think there is value to them (the recreational diver) stated why.

A lot of the time, I see people posting something about DIR and saying, "But I'm just a recreational diver, and these things don't apply to the diving I do." The implication is that DIR is only of significant value to the technical diver.

I think that there is significant value to a recreational diver. I have yet to meet someone who has taken DIR-F and did not feel they got value from the class. That doesn't mean that they have to agree 100% with everything presented, but they feel that their diving was improved and learned something in the process. In the group I dive with, no one has yet gone beyond the recreational/DIR-F level, (and many don't plan to ever do anything beyond recreational diving) but they all feel they received significant value from the class. It would be really interesting to me to 1- hear from someone who has taken DIR-F and not felt they got anything from it and why, and 2- to hear from people who believe there is no benefit and why. A real discussion might be helpful, unfortunately they quickly degenerate in to more of the same made up arguments like "Those DIR guys made fun of me for having a blue mask", and then half the people here go away thinking "what a bunch of jerks those guys are, I don't want to have anything to do with a group like that". The reality is that ALL of the DIR divers I have meet so far have been the nicest, most helpful poeple I have run across.
I have meet quite a few non-dir divers who were complete A-H0ls, but somehow I have managed to not judge everyone in that group based on those experiences

 

[rjack321]

This is a very intriguing idea. By what metric do you measure success?

The 1% to many argues in favor of being as inclusive as possible. The 20% for a few argues against it.

I have no idea how to pursue either, and know of no way to meassure the outcomes, but it's still and interesting point.

Tobin

Honestly I have no idea how to measure the "benefits of DIR". Mostly they are intangible IMO. Being more "connected" with your buddy leads to better debriefs, better awareness, something to practice, better skills next time, etc.

Vs. does the gear allow for lightening fast OOA donations relative to an octo? Sometimes, but I have gotten the long hose tangled in my light cord though so its not a given. Really this is the only response where speed is critical and whether your donation took 2 or 3 seconds isn't all that relevant IMO. I still prefer accuracy, like not having your palm on the 2nd stage.

I prefer to think of DIR as attitude not gear. I have loads of gear, some DIR-compliant some not. The non-DIR stuff isn't going to kill me any more than the BP/W or canister light.

 

[TSandM]

Part of what brought this up for me was diving with do it easy. Tony's not a DIR diver, but he's a technically trained diver, and diving with him was just about like diving with one of my DIR friends. That got me to thinking that the different schools of technical training (and different instructors) might be more likely to produce a pretty similar product than different recreational instructors do, and therefore enforcing a strict standardization might not be either as necessary or as beneficial at that level . . . But then you're more likely to have any mess you get into in a technical dive become life-threatening than at 60 feet. Thus my question.

And, okay, I amend the original caveat: If you don't think the DIR approach has any value to either, please state so in a civilized fashion and give cogent reasons why

 

[JeffG]

I think that there is significant value to a recreational diver. I have yet to meet someone who has taken DIR-F and did not feel they got value from the class. That doesn't mean that they have to agree 100% with everything presented, but they feel that their diving was improved and learned something in the process.

DIR-f is not DIR.

DIR-f is a class that goes over fundamental skills and introduces some DIR concepts.

It is a good class, but the fact of taking it doesn't make them DIR.

 

[Jasonmh]

One aspect that in fact Andrew G and I have debated often is the DIR approach to deco, quite frankly 75% of Fundies level divers don't really get ratio deco, they would be safer diving standard tables or computers.

Well, I agree with you, but ratio deco isn't even taught in Fundies, so not sure where you are coming from.