Two HOURS??????

[azcaddman]

mmm, deco is definately possible in the mexico caves... just because its 50-60' in some, when you're there for 2-2.5 hours, you'll have a deco obligation. (but at least its a warm 76°F)

 

[Dive-aholic]

I strongly believe all training should be done in as bad or worse conditions that you will be doing in real life. When I took Trimix there were students that put on wet 3mm gloves on there dry suits to do the skills and now wonder why they have a hard time shooting a bag in there dry gloves. The point of training is not to get a card but to learn the skills you need to do the real dives safely.

I agree with you. The reason I do my courses in Florida is because the majority of tech diving I do is in the Florida caves. I plan on eventually diving Puget, but don't think I'll be doing any deco hangs there. I occasionally dive in the NE. I haven't done any tech diving there yet, but even when I do, I will plan my dives so that I'm not spending 2 hours in the water even with deco. And before I do that, I'll be practicing with dry gloves. So far my tech dives have been gloveless.

 

[KMD]

jtivat, I agree with you. On the other hand, this is a NO DECO class for diving helium in the 100 foot range . . . Any dive I do in that range is not going to be more than an hour in the water, ever, and stay no deco.

The reason for the long stays in the water is class logistics, I think, more than anything else. And it amazes me what the instructors can do. When we did Fundies, Steve was staying in the water for a couple of hours at a time. But I don't have the muscle mass to generate the heat, nor the fat to insulate it, and I'm up against practical limits on layers of insulation and the resulting weight I have to carry. I'm never going to do long deco hangs in Puget Sound, if I ever do any deco at all (which isn't necessary for the Mexican caves, which is where I'm headed!)

This bugs me somewhat. As it is an NDL class the maximum time spend in the water at 100' would be 30 minutes. At 80' it only gives you 50 minutes dive time. And no matter what you can always surface and get out of the water. Shallower than 80, what the heck are you diving 30/30 anyways?

Ask the instruction if because JJ can do 24+ hours in the water doing deco if its a class requirement to do the same.

Quite frankly isnt this what DIR is all about? Its not what the strongest member of the team can do that limits us but rather the weakest. (and by weakest I am not singling out anybody) If someone is only prepaired to do X time in the water (for what ever reason)... then you plan the dives around that. If someone doesnt feel comfortable doing a jump, then you dont plan a dive with jumps!

Tell Steve I'll wear a diaper if he will.

 

[MonkSeal]

This bugs me somewhat. As it is an NDL class the maximum time spend in the water at 100' would be 30 minutes. At 80' it only gives you 50 minutes dive time.

It was explained earlier: dive, surface debrief, dive - you can easily gain 2 hours, unless you have huge SAC rate.

 

[Gilldiver]

It was explained earlier: dive, surface debrief, dive - you can easily gain 2 hours, unless you have huge SAC rate.

Dive, surface, evaporation cooling, dive, surface, evaporation cooling, dive, surface, etc.

This is the best way to get real cold. As being cold is one of the many pre-conditions that can lead to DCS, no instructor should ever force any diver to stay in the water when they get cold enough to start to shiver.

I have been in winter water of 31-31F off Maine many times, but then my dive was limited to 36 frames in my camera, it is not fun at times and if you have a damp problem from a slow leak - OR a used diaper - it gets worse.

What no one has mentioned so far is a good hood, dry hoods are fine but not for some, The hood has to be at least a 1/4" (7mm) and well fitted around the face and neck with little excess spacing around the skull. Men & women with a lot of hair may have problems with excess air/water in the hood. This air/water needs your energy to heat which can speed cooling of your core. When the core gets cool, it can take a long time (2+ hours) to get back to normal and feel right again.

The old back woods saying is "If your feet get cold, put on a hat." It goes especialy well with diving.

Lastly, if you start to shiver and mild physical excertion doesn't warm you up, get out of the water. If the instructor gives you flak, report them and aks for a full refund.

This is supposed to be fun after all.

 

[Carribeandiver]

After reading the posts from all you people who dive in water the temp of the cubes I put in my drinks, I cannot tell you how much I respect you for your tenacity and love of diving. I am freaking out about going in a Florida spring that is approx 70F. I cannot imagine anyone diving in water that is 40-50F.
I have no clue what you all are talking about when discussing Weezles and Thinsulates but on the other hand, I am very very glad I do not have to.
I do have one question regarding the TWO HOURS water time. Can one do that with two cylinders in water that cold? I mean, doesnt the breathing rate increase in cold water?

 

[TSandM]

You know, I've heard it said that SAC rate goes up in cold water, but I've tracked mine at home and in the tropics, and it's not much different.

I dive double 85s, and 170 cu ft of gas can keep me underwater far longer than I want to be there. And the "critical skills" dives for GUE classes are done in the shallows, where the skills are harder so gas lasts a long time. And, as has been said a couple of times in this thread, this two hours in the water is not two hours UNDER the water.

I won't stay in if I start to shiver. I've had one bout with real, honest to God hypothermia while diving, and I won't do it again. What I'm trying to do is figure out how to meet the class requirements and NOT end up there.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I won't stay in if I start to shiver. I've had one bout with real, honest to God hypothermia while diving, and I won't do it again. What I'm trying to do is figure out how to meet the class requirements and NOT end up there.

Simple ... you look at Steve and say "I need a break to warm up" ... I don't doubt for a moment that he'd respect that. Even in GUE, a big part of skills assessment is knowing your limits and responding appropriately ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Peter Guy]

The two hour in the water concept is, in my always so humble opinion, bull*****. As others have said, this is not two hours of diving so that having a Weezle or some such can make a difference -- it is less than an hour of diving (much of which is not moving) and then sit on the surface and listen (again, not moving).

If she'd ever listent to me, I'd tell her to take the advice of the rational posters here:

1. She'll wear a diaper if her instructor wears one, otherwise there MUST be pee breaks; and

2. No more than 70 minutes of continuous in-the-water-time -- then there must be a "decent" re-heat period (either inside if weather is typical or, if a miracle, in the sunshine outside).

She is not being trained to work/dive for a purpose other than TO HAVE FUN.

 

[Adobo]

2. No more than 70 minutes of continuous in-the-water-time -- then there must be a "decent" re-heat period (either inside if weather is typical or, if a miracle, in the sunshine outside).

I'm not even sure that all GUE instructors would insist on this 2 hour business. The ones that I know have always let the students describe their state and ability to proceed further without a rest period.

RecTriox is a recreational diving class, is it not? No deco obligation, no overhead. I don't see the purpose in insisting that students have this type of endurance. In fact, as others have said, it might even be contrary to some of the other principles that GUE is trying to impart (dive conservatively, recognize risk factors, etc.).