Two fatalities in Monterey

[Thalassamania]

So tell me Thal ... when was the last time you trained 16, 17 year old males?

about six weeks ago.

Like it or not, they come up with some ideas sometimes that would never occur to an adult ... and as soon as there's opportunity, they "experiment" with them.

that's not been my experience.

And FWIW ... I've known people who died on scuba in less than 30 feet of water ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I have not known people who died on scuba in less than 30 feet of water. I have know of people who dived on scuba in less than 30 feet of water ... there is a big difference. I'll go so far as to say that I have no knowledge of any Scripps Model trained diver who has died whilst diving (of any age) since the beginning of such training in the early 1950s ... not a one.

 

[tddfleming]

I think the odds of any info being released are slim to none. The way I see it this accident is so deep in legal issues right now, it will be years before there is ever any word of what might have happened. From what I can gather, there is the school, the teacher that orgaized the trip from the school, the dive shop, the charter company, I am not sure about the aquarium. Did I miss anyone???

The only way I can see anything coming out is if one of the parents makes a plea to the public about what happened and how to prevent something like this again or the legal system uses the media for support for their case. Other than that, I think all lips will be sealed.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

about six weeks ago.
that's not been my experience.
I have not known people who died on scuba in less than 30 feet of water. I have know of people who dived on scuba in less than 30 feet of water ... there is a big difference. I'll go so far as to say that I have no knowledge of any Scripps Model trained diver who has died whilst diving (of any age) since the beginning of such training in the early 1950s ... not a one.

Your disdain for all scuba training that is not Scripps is well documented ... it must be lonely up there with only God for company.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Actually the blame does go to the organizers, these are kids, they are under 18, therefore not adults. It may seem harsh, yet that is how it is when you do activities with underage divers.



Happy Diving

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think the odds of any info being released are slim to none. The way I see it this accident is so deep in legal issues right now, it will be years before there is ever any word of what might have happened. From what I can gather, there is the school, the teacher that orgaized the trip from the school, the dive shop, the charter company, I am not sure about the aquarium. Did I miss anyone???

The only way I can see anything coming out is if one of the parents makes a plea to the public about what happened and how to prevent something like this again or the legal system uses the media for support for their case. Other than that, I think all lips will be sealed.

Here's the reality ... anybody who knows anything about this accident has already been told by lawyers and by the agency they represent not to say anything about it in public. Doing so can only harm them. As this and most other threads in this forum demonstrate, in the absense of information, people speculate. Speculation ultimately leads to a mentality where people outdo each other with "plausible" theories about what happened, and who is to blame. The "experts" trot out their pet theories about how the agencies and instructors are all incompetent, and if only we'd teach scuba like they did back in the '50's, this wouldn't have happened. At that point, anyone with any real information would be foolish in the extreme to say a word ... they'd be lynched by a crowd now "angry" that this happened and eager to blame someone.

Even if the people with the real information were not dealing with the constraints of a legal system that's always looking for someone to blame, they'd be foolish in the extreme to say a word in here ... they'd be torn to shreds.

Meanwhile, the families of the victims inevitably find these threads, read the words of the blame-seekers, and hurt even more because they don't know enough about scuba to understand the difference between what's plausible and what's just someone seeking to show the world how "knowledgeable" they are.

Everyone comes to these threads claiming to want to learn from the mistakes of others. Sadly, there's nothing to learn ... there's only the potential to cause further harm to people who are already hurting in ways that most of us can't even imagine.

The reality is that the only two people who could have truly told you what happened are dead ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Actually the blame does go to the organizers, these are kids, they are under 18, therefore not adults. It may seem harsh, yet that is how it is when you do activities with underage divers.



Happy Diving

Yes ... certainly ... we should lock all kids up until they're 18 ... to keep them safe.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lobzilla]

Here's the reality ... anybody who knows anything about this accident has already been told by lawyers and by the agency they represent not to say anything about it in public. Doing so can only harm them. As this and most other threads in this forum demonstrate, in the absense of information, people speculate. Speculation ultimately leads to a mentality where people outdo each other with "plausible" theories about what happened, and who is to blame. The "experts" trot out their pet theories about how the agencies and instructors are all incompetent, and if only we'd teach scuba like they did back in the '50's, this wouldn't have happened. At that point, anyone with any real information would be foolish in the extreme to say a word ... they'd be lynched by a crowd now "angry" that this happened and eager to blame someone.

Even if the people with the real information were not dealing with the constraints of a legal system that's always looking for someone to blame, they'd be foolish in the extreme to say a word in here ... they'd be torn to shreds.

Meanwhile, the families of the victims inevitably find these threads, read the words of the blame-seekers, and hurt even more because they don't know enough about scuba to understand the difference between what's plausible and what's just someone seeking to show the world how "knowledgeable" they are.

Everyone comes to these threads claiming to want to learn from the mistakes of others. Sadly, there's nothing to learn ... there's only the potential to cause further harm to people who are already hurting in ways that most of us can't even imagine.

The reality is that the only two people who could have truly told you what happened are dead ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, I think we can be a lot more positive about the value of this discussion.

So far, this thread has received over 17,000 views. Even if all speculations are wrong, even if the 'experts' disagree on everything, even if some people get offended by other people's opinions... if only 3 people who read this thread take their gas management a little more serious, progress has been made. I venture the bet that several hundred people have realized, at least for now, that diving is not horseplay.

The families of the two deceased divers have a choice to either read these ramblings or not. Folks who were drawn into this accident and are now suffering from PTSD did not have a choice. However, everyone of us has to deal with the certainty that most of us will loose friends and parents, many even children, and all of us will loose our own life. By blaming and trying to find simple answers we are just expressing our discomfort with that certainty.

In light of this, we can only focus on the perspective summarized in your sig line and make sure that we do not shorten this precious time by being careless or reckless.

 

[kwhkg]

Two Nevada Teens Drowned in Monterey Bay Scuba Diving Accident | Illinois News | JusticeNewsFlash Release

 

[Tortuga68]

Given the incident and the fact that it was a very early (if not first) dive...

According to reports, they were certified and on their 3rd or 4th dive of the trip... so hardly their first dive

 

[Scott L]

According to reports, they were certified and on their 3rd or 4th dive of the trip... so hardly their first dive

How much closer can you get?