Tried a BP/Wings set up this weekend.

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I leave mine fully open at all times. I add just enough gas to make the suit squeeze bearable (it stays uncomfortable).

I wear the same weight with a full 5mm wetsuit and hooded vest as with the drysuit.

WW
 
I tend to get too cold if I leave my valve all the way open. not to mention, if I put any air in, it just goes right out the next time I accidentally move the air to where the valve is. so there end up being no air in the suit at all. I don't typically put much in it though, I only crank the valve down a little bit, just enough that it doesnt exhaust accidentally, but it does when I put it up on purpose to vent.
 
Everyone's different with weighting. You need what you need. Someone telling you, "you are overweighted" is useless. I have slowly dropped some weight as I have become slightly more experienced, but in the beginning, I needed a full 36 lbs with my drysuit and an AL80 in fresh water. Now, I use 24-26 in the summertime with a HP72. I went out diving a couple weeks ago and couldn't even submerge because I had two extra layers on...8 lbs later, I was just right.

While it is nice to try to keep your weight down, as long as it is ditchable, it isn't much of a problem.

I should mention that I am of similar stature to Will...6'0", 150lbs (when dripping wet). I have very little muscle and very little fat. I float.
 
AaronBBrown once bubbled...
Someone telling you, "you are overweighted" is useless.

the people that say this, and there are plenty of them, are always the ones who can't dive with a reasonable amount of weight themslves.

Overweighting is hazardous, for obvious reasons.

WW
 
... but part of the problem is your undergarment... the USIA Exotherm II is just not warm enough for me in 48F~50F water.

Plus your suit is probably not custom cut... so to get it long enough for your height I'll bet there is a lot of extra room in there since you are skin~n~bones as you say.

The air that you add to get the undergarment to loft has a lot of suit to bubble around in... and so you need to add more than if you had a closer fitting suit. That coupled with the marginal insulation of the Exotherm II and no blubber means you have to add waaaaay too much air.... and that means you have to add waaaay too much weight to compensate.

So.... what to do?

Well... first off perhaps you could layer a polarfleece vest under your Exotherm. May be even some poly long-johns. Anything to keep from having to add so much extra air (I dive with my dump all the way open just like WW and lal7176.)

That should allow you to get rid of 10#s.

Next... the ankle weights are not helping... switch to velcro straps around the ankles or even gators if you need something constricting ballooning in the lower leg (and you probably do with the USIA.) The problem with ankle weights is that they will drop your feet and part of your thrust will be vectored down... and that requires you to have additional weight to compensate and keep from going up!

Next... the AL80 is another 4~6#s but if that is what you have then you need to live with it... however if you are renting tanks then think about going with steel when you do buy your own.

At least give these suggestions a try even if you don't go with a BP/wing.
 
Did it ever occur to you that some people do indeed need a fair amount of weight? Trust me, I've tried every suggestion I've ever heard...I dump air like crazy, I dive with a substantial amount of squeeze, I exhale fully.

Diving with too little weight is a whole lot more dangerous than diving with too much. A couple lbs over and you can just drop your weight belt. A few lbs light, and you can't make a slow ascent or a safety stop.

It's nice that people with tons and tons of experience can dive with 2 lbs of weight with Al80s and a drysuit (sarcasm), but not everyone can do that. Like I said...with experience, I have been able to drop weight slowly, but if you asked me to use what you use, I'd never be able to start a dive.

Regardless, I stand by what I said, being told, on a message board, "You are overweighted" does very little. He'll think, "gee...maybe I'm overweighted" and work like hell to remove weight that he may need. I've been there and finally realized that I need to dive the way I need to dive. I welcome suggestions, but I don't think anyone can alter my personal bouyancy characteristics.

WreckWriter once bubbled...


the people that say this, and there are plenty of them, are always the ones who can't dive with a reasonable amount of weight themslves.

Overweighting is harardous, for obvious reasons.

WW
 
What UP said makes a ton of sense and is helpful. I also do not have a custom cut dry suit and it is too big in the body. I also need to wear a ton of thermal protection in order to stay comfortable. All this translates to more weight.

I'm anxious to try a BP/Wings because I think there will be a lot less air getting trapped in the wing itself and the BP will allow me to drop some weight off my belt.
 
Uncle Pug once bubbled...
... but part of the problem is your undergarment... the USIA Exotherm II is just not warm enough for me in 48F~50F water.

Plus your suit is probably not custom cut... so to get it long enough for your height I'll bet there is a lot of extra room in there since you are skin~n~bones as you say.

The air that you add to get the undergarment to loft has a lot of suit to bubble around in... and so you need to add more than if you had a closer fitting suit. That coupled with the marginal insulation of the Exotherm II and no blubber means you have to add waaaaay too much air.... and that means you have to add waaaay too much weight to compensate.

So.... what to do?

Well... first off perhaps you could layer a polarfleece vest under your Exotherm. May be even some poly long-johns. Anything to keep from having to add so much extra air (I dive with my dump all the way open just like WW and lal7176.)

That should allow you to get rid of 10#s.

Next... the ankle weights are not helping... switch to velcro straps around the ankles or even gators if you need something constricting ballooning in the lower leg (and you probably do with the USIA.) The problem with ankle weights is that they will drop your feet and part of your thrust will be vectored up... and that requires you to have additional weight to compensate!

Next... the AL80 is another 4~6#s but if that is what you have then you need to live with it... however if you are renting tanks then think about going with steel when you do buy your own.

At least give these suggestions a try even if you don't go with a BP/wing.

I was wondering when you'd pipe up, UP :wink:

I forgot to mention I do use Poly long johns under my exotherm, and sometimes do wear a polar fleece vest as well. My suit is somewhat custom cut, but not 100% They did a medium sized suit in large length for me. So there is some excess material, but it's not really too bad (IMO) it's not like this huge fat man could fit in there, or enough space for 2 of me. I would say it's a little big but not Too bad.

I do try and keep the air in my suit to a min though. I just try and keep enough in for squeeze and a little loft for the undergarment. I wish I could explain or show you better, but if you saw it, you probably would say I don't have TOO much air in it, just a little too much at most. I've thought about the gators or something, I wear my dive knife on my left leg, and it's sinched pretty good, but doesn't seem to limit the air in that leg at all. My fins of course aren't DIR (TUSA X-Pert Zooms) so they are pretty much neutral, or a little buoyant/negative (supposed to be slightly negative, they are about 50% rubber) I never noticed an up vector because of the ankles, but I trust you.

I do use rental tanks, so I might have to do steels when I buy mine, but by then I may not care about a 5 or so lbs.

I'm curious about the velcro idea, it sounds like an inexpensive way to accomplish what gators (and what ankle weights do crappily) without the expense. If I can get an inexpensive way to drop the ankles I will. I never have liked them much, I only use 1lbs on each ankle anyways. Just enough to make my feet right about neutral feeling. Do you just put some velcro straps aound the outside of the suit? or on the undergarment? or both? I thought my dive knife would do the same thing as a gator, but it doesn't seem to phase it, it's a tight fit putting it on at the surface, and has rubber straps.

It is deffinately noticable that I don't put much air in my suit, as the deeper I go the more heavy I get, and the more tight my suit gets. So I compensate some, until it's just barely comforable, and then use my BC. The problem I had with the jacket BC after trying the BP was with 37lbs I was floaty above about 5' and had to exhale, exhaust all air from the BC, and suit before I could sink, at less than 5' a breath of air would make me neutral to possitive. After 5' I was heavy and had to use the BC, suit, and lungs to stay neutral. So my suit is deffinately getting compressed and not using much air, if after 5' I'm no longer floaty but heavy.
 
AaronBBrown once bubbled...
Did it ever occur to you that some people do indeed need a fair amount of weight?

It has occurred to me, yes. In 10 years of teaching diving though I've rarely found it to be true (except in cases of extremely overweight people). In my experience most people either have air trapped in their equipment or (most often) are involuntarily kicking their feet.

I've found that body position and awareness take care of 90% of the problems. Yes, most people can drop weight as they gain experience. Many of these same people could have dropped it earlier if they just tried some of the little tricks I suggested.

WW
 

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