Touching Female Cave Students By Consent: An Instructor's Perspective

[formernuke]

I should keep my mouth shut but…

Have we females become so fragile that we risk falling apart with a little *man*handling when necessary for the situation? Are we no longer able to differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate touch?

To the male instructors, are you also as concerned with female dive buddies?

I understand the concern of instructors with sexual harassment claims, we have similar issues in medical care (even same gender exams) but if it gets to the point where you are hesitant to do what needs doing in a cave course, that’s concerning.

It is current society. It only takes a few to create horror stories.

 

[Kendall Raine]

Regardless of gender, a student who cannot be touched cannot pass the course. These students need to fix their issues prior to the course.

Roger's not suggesting someone who’s so uptight they can’t stand to be touched should be in a cave. Not at all. He’s saying it goes a long way to explain up front that in any scuba course, but no more so than in cave, touching is inevitable/inherent but that he’s sensitive to his student’s life experiences and wants students to understand in advance that what touching will go on is in the context of communication/technique/equipment adjusting/configuration, not predatory behavior. If a student has a problem with it, the time to discuss/contextualize is day one minute one so issues can be discussed and resolved, or not. Regardless, potential issues are smoked out up front. Not only does that create trust in the student for the instructor, it (hopefully) removes/dampens a potential trigger point that the instructor might not know about.

 

[Ayisha]

Have we females become so fragile that we risk falling apart with a little *man*handling when necessary for the situation? Are we no longer able to differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate touch?

I think if someone has trauma that hasn't been worked through, facing it unexpectedly for the first time u/w or especially in a cave could go very badly.

I think that setting out expectations, as the OP is suggesting, goes a long way in preparing an individual who can then make an informed decision.

So to be clear, I don't think that anyone is generalizing that females can't differentiate between appropriate or inappropriate touch or can't handle being touched. Some people of any sex, however, may be triggered by past traumas, and it's not a bad idea to let everyone know how adjustments might be made or how their straps might be grabbed in an emergency.

Having said that, whenever I help someone adjust their bp/w to fit better, including other females, I always get them to take it off and show them how to adjust it, then they put it back on. This takes longer, but making as many adjustments on land as possible helps a lot in reducing the chances of inadvertent touching.

 

[tarponchik]

It is current society. It only takes a few to create horror stories.

Current society can't even define what the word "woman" means.

 

[kimh]

I think if someone has trauma that hasn't been worked through, facing it unexpectedly for the first time u/w or especially in a cave could go very badly.

If a diver of any gender is vulnerable to something "going very badly" – because there was an "unexpected" touch – they should not be in a cave.

They need to "work through their trauma" first – before putting themselves (or other divers) in danger.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If a diver of any gender is vulnerable to something "going very badly" – because there was an "unexpected" touch – they should not be in a cave.

They need to "work through their trauma" first – before putting themselves (or other divers) in danger.

Good point. But maybe there are people who don't realize how their past experiences are going to affect them until some event triggers it? (I'm not sure how anyone could have gotten past basic OW training and made it all the way to cave training without having been touched, but that's beside the point.) I have heard it said there have been cave course students who hadn't realized they were uncomfortable being in a cave until they were actually in a cave for the first time.

 

[uncfnp]

I think if someone has trauma that hasn't been worked through, facing it unexpectedly for the first time u/w or especially in a cave could go very badly.

I think that setting out expectations, as the OP is suggesting, goes a long way in preparing an individual who can then make an informed decision.

So to be clear, I don't think that anyone is generalizing that females can't differentiate between appropriate or inappropriate touch or can't handle being touched. Some people of any sex, however, may be triggered by past traumas, and it's not a bad idea to let everyone know how adjustments might be made or how their straps might be grabbed in an emergency.

Having said that, whenever I help someone adjust their bp/w to fit better, including other females, I always get them to take it off and show them how to adjust it, then they put it back on. This takes longer, but making as many adjustments on land as possible helps a lot in reducing the chances of inadvertent touching.

Looking at it this way it certainly seems reasonable and perhaps prudent to include personal space expectations for everyone as part of the class orientation, just as I am sure the instructor reviews other responsibilities and expectations for their course.

 

[cerich]

While I can't fault the overall meaning nof the post, and it's an important conversation....

I have always leaned towards telling my students, whatever levels (I am an instructor trainer, cave evaluator) of whatever sex what they need to adjust, and will expect them to do, or ask their buddy or me if they need help. I have never felt the need to start grabbing and pulling since I was teaching resort courses 3 decades ago in Caymans, and that was simply a time rush and I did ask first if ok. But generally, my thinking has been they learn by doing, that includes fine tuning their kit.

To DPV, I have the discussion about where to grab and that it's intimate, but will also seek consent all around.

The groping aspect aside, I honestly feel that if the instructor is doing the adjustments for the students, we are short changing them, because they need to learn, get comfortable with their kit and adjustment.

 

[SlugLife]

I should keep my mouth shut but…

Have we females become so fragile that we risk falling apart with a little *man*handling when necessary for the situation? Are we no longer able to differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate touch?

To the male instructors, are you also as concerned with female dive buddies?

I understand the concern of instructors with sexual harassment claims, we have similar issues in medical care (even same gender exams) but if it gets to the point where you are hesitant to do what needs doing in a cave course, that’s concerning.

Without getting too much into the "politics," this is a scenario where the 1% chance of a random person misinterpreting the behavior and pursuing consequences (criminal, lawsuit, or reputational) that a mere accusation has such severe consequences, that an extraordinary amount of caution is often warranted.

 

[oya]

I'd like to revisit something I referenced in my original post in passing.

I don't like to be touched.

I have never suffered any sort of trauma or abuse (as far as I can remember, anyway); I just don't like being touched. It freaks me out and makes me extremely uncomfortable. And yet people assume it's just hunky-goddamned-dory to come up and hug me all the time. Hello or goodbye or whatever. It's icky. I really don't like it.

If someone is going to touch me at all in any way I would like to be informed so I can emotionally prepare myself for it.
Again, mine is not the reaction of a trauma survivor. But as an instructor with a modicum of empathy I figure it's worth the accumulated 5 minutes of quiet, private conversations with each student about their personal space to make sure everyone has the best class possible.