Touching Female Cave Students By Consent: An Instructor's Perspective

[lairdb]

Just FWIW:
Not a dive instructor, but am a (currently inactive) firearms instructor. Further complicating matters, a significant fraction of the students were victims of stalking, assault, or sexual assault. Without digging out my notes, part of the intro material was:

• On the range it's a loud environment and you are wearing unfamiliar hearing protection, and your attention will be focused on the firearm and downrange. I may tap your shoulders or upper arms to get your attention. If you are uncomfortable with that, let me know during the classroom break (or at any time) and we'll work out an alternative.
  
  
• You will be holding a firearm, and with a firearm there are no second chances, no take-backs. If I see you beginning to move in a way that would present a danger to yourself or others, I will stop you. Usually this is just touching your forearm, or hands, or the firearm in your hands, to stop a movement in an unsafe direction. Much of the first class session will cover the mistakes you might make -- so that you don't -- but if you do, I will need to stop that movement for everyone's safety. If you are uncomfortable with that, let me know during the classroom break (or at any time) and we'll work out an alternative.*

(* For the second, there isn't much of an alternative. Referring them to a one-on-one class can further reduce the potential for issues.)

 

[Tom_Ivan]

I think most of the responses here are forgetting the point of a cave class. Its to teach you how to not die in a very dangerous environment.
Gear adjustment (especially in sidemount) is often done under water, Hopefully the instructor will be videoing the changes and can show you later. You cannot simply ask the student to do this themselves.

Here are a few exercises during cave course;

• Returned along the complex line course with mask blacked out maintaining
  line and buddy contact.
• effectively retrieve line without masks .../... whilst buddy
  breathing from a regulator supplied by another diver for a minimum of
  40 metres.
• Maintained adequate buddy contact through the use of tactile signals while
  negotiating the five line placements with mask blacked out.

Regardless of gender, a student who cannot be touched cannot pass the course. These students need to fix their issues prior to the course.

 

[oya]

Regardless of gender, a student who cannot be touched cannot pass the course. These students need to fix their issues prior to the course.

There is touch contact in a cave course. Yes. It is required.

Can we allow students a feeling of a controlled, safe environment where their personal boundaries are not strained or broken? Yes. It should be common sense. Lots of folks chiming in here are adding quite a lot to that side of the conversation.

"These students need to fix their issues..." is, you will (or won't, whatever, honestly don't require your forgiveness) forgive me for saying, an incredibly short-sighted and regressive way to think about something like the emotional wellbeing of a sexual assault survivor.

Again I would remind you:
Every fourth woman you know has endured some degree of sexual violence. I'd probably keep that in mind before minimising their trauma. I have taught hundreds and hundreds of women over the years. Statistically, at least one of them has managed to gain a control over their lives and their pain in a way that their moving past it includes learning to dive at some level.

I'm guessing if I just grabbed their crotch-strap and said, "You need to grow up," if they flinch would have made for a very different learning experience.

______________________

TLDR version: You might want to delete that post. It makes you sound like a dick.

 

[uncfnp]

Whatever your life experience, have you ever felt uncomfortable being poked and prodded in a class environment, or having co-students get too up close and personal during DPV or blindfolded (touch-contact) air-share drills?

No.

 

[Rilelen]

I’m a younger woman, and very much appreciate this conversation. Both my cave and cavern instructors were *incredibly* professional, and that’s something I definitely noted (and valued). They made an extra clear effort to be respectful, to explain necessary touch beforehand and keep that touch professional, and generally treat me seriously as a *student*, not a potential romantic or sexual interest. That hasn’t been true of all the OW courses I’ve taken, or all of my experiences with other DMs or instructors.

It’s annoying (at best) and actively distracting when you’re trying to learn new skills to have to worry about whether someone is making excuses to touch you, or lingering too long. Fundamentally: it makes you question if you’re safe with this person.

And that’s not something you want to worry about when you’re blindfolded alone in a cave.

 

[VikingDives]

About half my students are female, which is kind of amazing given the percentage of female divers.

One of my standard statements to all my students is that the course is their course. That means we proceed with things at a outage that makes them feel comfortable. Sometimes, that means the students spend more time then I think they need to in confined water. Sometimes it means we repeat skills that they don't feel comfortable with (even when I think it is).

I always try to brief a couple of other things too : 1. At a recreational level, I'm going to hold on to them during skills, that's usually going to be in a way that isn't intimate or uncomfortable. 2. If there is something happening that's a safety concern, all bets are off. I'll grab whatever I need to to ensure your safety.

I'd be absolutely mortified if a student ever thought I made excuses to touch them. I hope the way I do my testing reflects that.

Thanks @oya - some things here have made me think I need to be more empathetic when working with my students.

 

[Tracy]

About 30% of my students are female and the charter boat is about the same percentage. In classes, I take the time to explain what I am doing and ask beforehand. I honestly never gave it a thought on the boat. I clip tanks, fasten buckles, and grab crotch straps for everybody all day long. Hopefully nobody has ever given it a second thought as something other than helpful. I will make it a point to ask going forward.

 

[SlugLife]

I'm far from an expert on this kind of thing, but I'll offer my own thoughts. I'm also straight-male, so take that into context if it matters. (And I've had my butt grabbed, uninvited/unwanted, by women and men on occasions, but thankfully nothing worse than that)

In the context of various professions or hobbies, there are many cases where some kind of physical contact that is normal or common in that context, would be considered sexual-harassment if done to a stranger in public. To pick a few examples: dancing, cheer-leading, and doctors, or any rescue/emt roles are the first that come to mind.

I'm most familiar with dancing, including several styles where you and your partner get VERY close (such as Brazilian Zouk). I'll even do the "follow" role during classes about 33% of the time, because I learn a LOT from that, such as feeling the momentum the follow experiences, the kinds of mistakes leads do, or what a good lead does. There's nothing sexual about it, at least if you're being professional. The faster one can get that kind of thinking out of their head, the quicker and easier it becomes to ask anyone to dance, regardless of size, shape, or other characteristics. If you do think about it as sexual or romantic, you naturally become more nervous or awkward, and people intuitively pick up on that.

Another useful thing I've learned is that so long as you keep your hands at a certain level, and the more you do a skill, the much less likely you are to accidentally bump into someone's butt or other area. There's a certain amount of intuition and experience which helps avoid those mistakes, but even if they do happen, accidentally bumping into someone is very different from groping them.

In the context of a cave-diving or rescue-diving course, it may be important to describe what the skills are, and their purpose before hand and make sure they're well understood. You might also be very deliberate in saying, "when you do this skill, you are grabbing the strap, and you are grabbing it here. We're all professionals here, and I don't want to hear of anyone grabbing further down the strap."

For any above-water things:

I always start such a class with the question of whether people are extra protective of their personal space. I am always very clear, beforehand, about where my hands are going to be and why.

Yes, precisely this. This is the professional way to handle this.

As far as any underwater skills, where communication is difficult, and time may be short, that's a little tougher. The problem is, when dealing with something advanced like cave-diving, or perhaps safety-oriented, like rescue-diving, anyone worried about someone incidentally bumping into their butt, or grabbing the front of a crotch-strap for some safety skill, is maybe not ready for the course. (That is of course very different from any kind of groping, to be very clear). I'm not familiar with the specific skills which may involve that, but so long as I'm well instructed about the whole what/when/why/how of such a skill, then I'm far less likely to think someone is trying to violate me if the front or back of the crotch-strap is grabbed in the right context, and assuming they're not groping me.

(Disclaimer: to repeat, this is just a random male perspective, and if other people have other boundaries or experiences, I don't mean to offend anyone or say your boundaries are wrong. I also haven't read past the first post yet.)

 

[Marie13]

About 30% of my students are female and the charter boat is about the same percentage. In classes, I take the time to explain what I am doing and ask beforehand. I honestly never gave it a thought on the boat. I clip tanks, fasten buckles, and grab crotch straps for everybody all day long. Hopefully nobody has ever given it a second thought as something other than helpful. I will make it a point to ask going forward.

I definitely didn’t give it a second thought when I was on the Alpena charter last month. But your wife was also right there as well. Whi would get handsy with their SO present? I’m going to be blunt - harder to grope someone through a drysuit and heavy undies for Great Lakes diving than somewhere tropical in a wetsuit.

 

[uncfnp]

I should keep my mouth shut but…

Have we females become so fragile that we risk falling apart with a little *man*handling when necessary for the situation? Are we no longer able to differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate touch?

To the male instructors, are you also as concerned with female dive buddies?

I understand the concern of instructors with sexual harassment claims, we have similar issues in medical care (even same gender exams) but if it gets to the point where you are hesitant to do what needs doing in a cave course, that’s concerning.