Touching Female Cave Students By Consent: An Instructor's Perspective

[Seaweed Doc]

I think it is logical that someone who is uncomfortable with being touched may also be uncomfortable making a public statement about that, particularly in a group where their peers are not opting-out.



I do a lot of yoga, possibly the furthest thing from hand-to-hand combat.

Many instructors will offer hands-on assists/adjustments. Sometimes that is very personal touching.

Now, virtually every instructor notifies the students in advance and allows people to opt-out.

Good instructors allow people to opt-out "anonymously", without letting the rest of the class know their preference. This doesn't need to be a formal thing. For example, early in a class, while students have their eyes closed or are lying face down, the instructor may say that anyone who does not want to be touched should put their hand palm-up, or move their foot off the edge or their yoga mat, etc. This action is visible to the instructor only.

A similar technique would probably be very helpful in getting consent (or allowing people to opt-out) from being touched during SCUBA instruction. Perhaps ask students to float face-down in the pool (snorkeling) and raise one hand above the water to signify that they do not want to be touched.

I love this idea on principle, but I wonder about situations where touching is expected? At least equipment touching (e.g., shared-air exercises and tired-diver tows). Less applicable to OW, but you can't get around touching in Rescue. You can give the option to opt out, but then they're also effectively opting out of certification or, in rescue, even meaningfully taking part in the training.



(And I'm just realizing this is a cave thread, so I've totally taken it off on a tangent....)

 

[pauldw]

There are classes, like DPV, where there are skills where you hold onto someone’s crotch-strap right between their legs.

No way! Way?

 

[kimh]

It's been a few years since I had a lifeguard re-cert, but when training against surprise moves by panicked swimmers, the role-playing victim has to forcefully grab the other lifeguard in a full-on frontal (or rear) hug … the idea is to simulate a death grip- because in the real world, that's literally what's happening. Done right, it’s not a gentle exercise.

With a male/female pair wearing only swimsuits, the touching issue- seemed more relevant than in any scuba training I've seen. BTW the girl in this video is not simulating realistically- she's a pushover, for the sake of clarity in the video. Nothing like a real victim.

 

[emoreira]

When I start a new OWD course I always warn students with the general idea that interpersonal space boundaries are significantly reduced due to things like buddy checks, air sharing, equipment adjustments, buddy assistance in donning scuba gear. , etc. Even more so if there is some type of incident or emergency. If they don't agree or have any kind of problem, I suggest to rethink the idea of taking an OWD course. At the first pool session, I ask permission the first time.
In the case of the rescue class, as a general rule the students have already been with us in the OWD and AOWD courses, so they know the rules and are specifically warned that in a rescue scenario physical contact may be necessary in the skills to be learned, as would be the case in a real-life rescue. Trying to avoid contact between men and women is sometimes impossible.
When I have to do a "Try Scuba" dive in a pool, with people who are coming into contact with this sport for the first time, I warn them that I need to put on the weight belt, fins, diving equipment, adjust the straps, etc.
I always ask permission to approach and/or touch, even if it is a male diver, especially if it is a woman. I try to avoid any other physical contact if possible.

 

[formernuke]

When I was doing my DM rescue I discussed it my female partner for the rescue as the chest strap buckle sat right on her breast. I directly brought it up in a professional matter and asked if she wanted to have that buckle u done prior (they really don't do anything useful anyway).

She said no she was more comfortable with it buckled even though it was purely a surface drill, but appreciated me asking.

During the drill I made damn sure I did it as a professional and didn't touch or linger, just buckle with two fingers, released the buckled and pulled fingers immediately.

Other than explaining exactly what needs to done and exactly what your doing. Other to have them do it and explain how it should feel when correct even if it might take some extra time.

For other classes say I will need to hold you or gear, try for just gear. If you need to a hand hold the wrist instead etc.

 

[oya]

I think it is logical that someone who is uncomfortable with being touched may also be uncomfortable making a public statement about that, particularly in a group where their peers are not opting-out.



I do a lot of yoga, possibly the furthest thing from hand-to-hand combat.

Many instructors will offer hands-on assists/adjustments. Sometimes that is very personal touching.

Now, virtually every instructor notifies the students in advance and allows people to opt-out.

Good instructors allow people to opt-out "anonymously", without letting the rest of the class know their preference. This doesn't need to be a formal thing. For example, early in a class, while students have their eyes closed or are lying face down, the instructor may say that anyone who does not want to be touched should put their hand palm-up, or move their foot off the edge or their yoga mat, etc. This action is visible to the instructor only.

A similar technique would probably be very helpful in getting consent (or allowing people to opt-out) from being touched during SCUBA instruction. Perhaps ask students to float face-down in the pool (snorkeling) and raise one hand above the water to signify that they do not want to be touched.

These are some excellent ideas!

I admit that I go with the - relatively low-tech - quiet word as a private aside to avoid any perception of peer-pressure. But I also have the luxury of the fact that I don't even remember the last time I had to work with more than three people at a time. Just as often as not my classes are one-on-one. Where, again, I go to as great a length as I can think of (as someone who has never suffered any sort of physical abuse whatsoever, and as a big dude who can only try to sympathize with a woman's experience of the world) to try to generate a relationship/environment that is safe and can be honest.

Again, thanks to all who have some contributions to help me (and all of us) do that a little better.

 

[oya]

No way! Way?

I'm gonna guess that was a "why?" and not a Mike Myers gag?

For OW DPV there's probably no real reason to do such a thing; in case of a failed DPV you'd surface and flag down the boat. The boat is faster than a DPV anyway.

The majority of the classes I run are some level of cave diving. If a DPV fails 3 miles from the exit and you were either too dumb to bring a backup scooter or the backup scooter is compromised... there is no way to swim 3 miles. Takes about an hour to swim 1/2 a mile. So, in that case, best practice: one diver holds onto the crotch-strap of the other diver, makes themselves as hydrodynamic as possible, and holds on for the ride.

Unfortunately, while there are some other ideas to manage this with boltsnaps or cords or leashes for the divers... all the ones I've heard have some flaw or another which simply creates another potential problem (when you're already in the middle of managing a pretty big problem).

Which, life-or-death emergency scenario... who cares about who is holding who where?

But during training this is going to be awkward no matter the sexes of the divers involved. And I can't imagine how it might affect someone who, for whatever reason, just wouldn't want someone with their hands in that area.

 

[oya]

(And I'm just realizing this is a cave thread, so I've totally taken it off on a tangent....)

I just happen to teach mostly cave and technical diving; but these issues aren't restricted to the cave/technical world. If anything, I think that my colleagues among the cave/technical instructorship (certainly the ones I see around me working each day) think much more carefully about these sorts of things.

So, to that end, I don't think that means you took it off on a tangent at all. Respect for our students' bodies, autonomy, and feelings of safety during a class should be on the front of every instructor's mind, no matter the level.

 

[formernuke]

I would like to hear from other females about this.

 

[berndo]

When I start a new OWD course I always warn students with the general idea that interpersonal space boundaries are significantly reduced due to things like buddy checks, air sharing, equipment adjustments, buddy assistance in donning scuba gear. , etc. Even more so if there is some type of incident or emergency. If they don't agree or have any kind of problem, I suggest to rethink the idea of taking an OWD course. At the first pool session, I ask permission the first time.
In the case of the rescue class, as a general rule the students have already been with us in the OWD and AOWD courses, so they know the rules and are specifically warned that in a rescue scenario physical contact may be necessary in the skills to be learned, as would be the case in a real-life rescue. Trying to avoid contact between men and women is sometimes impossible.
When I have to do a "Try Scuba" dive in a pool, with people who are coming into contact with this sport for the first time, I warn them that I need to put on the weight belt, fins, diving equipment, adjust the straps, etc.
I always ask permission to approach and/or touch, even if it is a male diver, especially if it is a woman. I try to avoid any other physical contact if possible.

I don't think there is a need to touch the student or adjust their gear in an OWD class or try scuba dive. I've seen instructors closing a chest strap and adjusting the gear of female students ... but can you just tell them how to do it. I've never had a student who couldn't close a chest strap, put on a weight belt or tighten a shoulder strap by themself.

Whenever I had to 'grab and secure' a student in the water I would grab them by the shoulder strap at clavicle level.
I've never put a weight belt on a student or adjusted their straps. In a rescue class it's a different story.