Top 5 Warm-Water Sidemount Fins

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Andy, I believe everybody knows the purpose of the frog kick, you are sounding a little arrogant, if you read correctly, I'm not stating a fact, but if one can choose between two fins where one give you more speed in frog kick than the other, I believe it is a easy pick.

Why will Force not do a proper frog kick if they want to sell there product, it appears to me that their fin is very good designed ( according fish anatomy and propulsion ) for normal kick, but like all in live what excels in one side lacks in the opposite.

I use frog kick for almost everything when I dive, and I believe the majority of divers do as well.
 
.Why will Force not do a proper frog kick...?

What's a 'proper' frog kick?

The correct movement needed to use stiff, flat bladed, paddle-type fins?

Or is the 'proper' technique actually the one that efficiently maximises propulsion based on the unique characteristics of the actual fin being used?

It's a pretty easy concept to grasp... the idea that varied fin characteristics demand varied applications of technique.

The proper technique for paddle fins is what's efficient for paddle fin propulsion. It's not 'proper' for fins designed differently. Force Fins are different.

People want to dismiss x, y or Z fins because their own skillset (or mindset?) is limited to a particular fin design.

I dont think it's "arrogant" to point out if people are suffering a blinkered perspective.

With all due respect... what I'm explaining is that just because the circle shape fits in the circle hole... doesn't mean a square shape will fit in a circular hole.

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Dismissing force fins equates to saying: "square shapes aren't 'proper' because I can't fit them in the circular hole I'm familiar with using".

To understand Force Fins... and many other fin designs for that matter... you need to step beyond a concept that there's only one 'proper' way to effect a given technique.

Just like an infant using the shape toy... a diver can readily see that curved Force Fins have a varying shape to flat paddle fins. Isn't it common sense to identify that the varying shape will demand a slightly varied approach?

'Proper' is relative. It's what's appropriate to fin being used.

I've used Force Fins daily for over 15 years...6000+ dives. I have no problems with frog kick, or any other propulsion technique. I used paddle fins before them... 2000+ dives... and had no problem with propulsion then either.

Using the wrong technique with the wrong tool is a user-error, not a tool error.

I'll say again....with many years of experience teaching the highest levels of technical and overhead divers... and hundreds of hours trialling every major 'tech' fin on the market... would anyone be so short-sighted as to believe I'd willingly choose a fin that couldn't efficiently implement the most basic fundamental propulsion techniques?

I've been guilty of some pretty stupid things in my life.... but I'm not THAT stupid. LOL

Note: Internet debates demand a certain degree of trust, and some comprehension of relative experience/ expertise. It's near impossible to 'prove' many performance and skills-related issues via a keyboard. Those same issues can be easily be proven if together in-water. I make a habit of not claiming anything I couldn't easily demonstrate for real....because I do have students who read these forums and wouldn't ever want to look like a faker. My professional reputation and career depends on 'walking the talk'. I happily invite any diver to come and see my point demonstrated in real life...
 
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if one can choose between two fins where one give you more speed in frog kick than the other, I believe it is a easy pick.

Speed at what cost?

You pay for speed; physical exertion, muscular stamina, oxygen metabolism.

More speed equals more water resistance equals more exertion needed.

Force Fins are very efficient, even in frog kick. They cruise effectively with significantly less effort. They won't blow your legs if/when you need to apply power.

Too many divers delude themselves over speed and power. They might have the fins for it, but they don't have the legs for it....not over any sort of meaningful duration.

Once in my old history I had the opportunity to spend months doing pool fitness training alongside SEALs and Australian SAS. I was fit back then... and I had the legs to use brute power fins.

(They are units which, incidentally, order and use Force Fins... alongside many SF/Spec OP's outfits... for the reason of efficiently delivered speed over distance
).

Nowadays I "just" dive every day... and even with that 'limited' stamina regime, I appreciate efficiency/economy of motion over brute power.

I appreciate functional, real-world capability over theoretical, fantasy capabilities.

Fantasy... that is... for those who don't water stamina train at elite levels of fitness...

When someone regurgitates the old "my fins have power to deal with high-flow/strong current" claim - simply ask them how many hours of high intensity in-water training they do per week to enable their legs to deal with those situations.

6000+ dives in Force Fins all over the globe... real-world diving... ripping atoll currents, icy lakes, North Atlantic waves, tight wrecks, 6+ cylinders, CCR, sidemount and backmount ... you name it. I've never found them wanting...and they've always made it easier for me.

In my experience, it's best to have a very efficient / economical fin that can also produce a significant power spike when called upon.

Brute power fins are wishful thinking....the preserve of real-world athletes and hypothetical internet divers.

Advanced, experienced, divers don't pick Jet Fins primarily for power. Assuming sufficient power... they pick them because they're simple to maneuver in.

The flat, stiff, blade is the easiest to learn control techniques with. I don't deny that curved blades like Force Fins have a longer learning curve... especially so as the nuanced technique isn't readily demonstrated on YouTube et al..

However, taking longer to learn a nuanced technique is NOT the same as something being "impossible".

Thats why I personally choose Force Fins, but still generally recommend my students to opt for a paddle-type fin.

I've seen better... quicker... training results from those stiff paddle fins.

For sidemount in warm water; using wetsuits and aluminium cylinders, the new models of near-neutral paddle fin are ideal for most divers. For drysuit and steel tanks, heavier paddle blades can be beneficial.

Because most divers don't have the opportunity to practice every day... efficient and timely progression is what they need.

What they lose... the trade-off... is the nuanced power efficiency that Force Fins provide....the benefits to sustainable, economical propulsion, at speed, over distance.... and, yes, that means frog kick.

What they DON'T lose is some magical 'superpower' to propel heavy, stiff fins at high intensity over sustained periods.... because that capability will always be first limited by their legs and lungs.
 
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Well, Andy, I wanted to be convinced, really I did. Happy diving. I'm glad you found a fin that you like.

As I said, I'm happy to shoot some video when I have time to do so.

Sadly, I can't prioritise that task as I've got a very busy diving schedule and I have no underlying motivation to 'sell' Force Fins to anyone.

If we're both happy with our respective fin choices, then it's a good situation.

My only intention with the initial article, and subsequent posts on this forum, is to assist other divers find the right fins for them.

It's a happy situation if more divers sourced the best fins for their needs.

It's an unhappy situation if divers didn't source the best fins for them because of misperceptions on fin strengths / weaknesses or misaligned goals on the performance attributes they actually need.

Force Fins may be the right choice for some divers... that's why they're included in the list... and why I've attempted to correct misperceptions about them.

The best bet is always to trial before you buy.

With respect to Force Fins, my caveat has always been that there is a need to nuance techniques that were developed / promulgated from paddle-bladed fin use.

That need to adjust technique makes very short-duration testing and trialling problematic.

The diver has to decide whether they favor a quick proficiency return with paddle-type fins, or a slower proficiency return with Force Fins; compensated by long-term propulsion efficiency benefits.

If you're already very proficient in paddle-bladed fins, then swapping to Force Fins and re-learning the nuanced technique necessary may reflect more commitment than you deem reasonable to make. It'd depend on how much you need, or value, reducing your physical exertion for a given level of propulsion.

I switched to Force Fins because I suffered leg cramping issues that arose from a military and sports induced medical condition. In my case, Force Fins significantly alleviated that issue. It was reasonable for me to commit to learning how to use the fins.

What I couldn't tolerate was less performance resulting from a given fin selection, as that would expose me to unacceptable risks.

If I'd experienced restrictive performance limits, I'd have had no choice but to return to paddle-bladed fins.

Thankfully, I didn't have to. Force Fins provide ample capacity for my needs. That includes outright speed/power in reasonable bursts, economical cruising on multiple stage/deco dives and high maneuverability in confined, silty spaces. It also includes having to consistently demonstrate and role-model highly refined control in the water.

For that reason, I'd summarise by saying that Force Fins offer a significant 'return on investment' for the advanced diver. That investment is both money and time for practice.

The decision whether that 'return on investment' is sufficiently enticing depends entirely on the individual diver's needs and goals.
 
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Andy

It is will known why ELITE forces choose power kick over frog kick.

I don't like stiff fins, it just kills my lengs, I did chose the Power Plana because its small blade, and TsandM back then recommended give me enough arguments, I did as well ask what where the best options for what I was able to get

I choose comfort over speed, for all the reasons you mention, but I see fins as tools, if I know that a dive site has currents then choosing the proper tool for the dive is the correct approach in my perspective.

Force fins seems a very good option to have a sustained forward movement without killing your legs, ( at least that is what I can see in the different videos, and the behavior of legs and fins from the different divers )

I see Force have different shapes of fins and on the second video of Excellerating Force Fins, the diver appears to have more speed than on the first video.

Did you had the opportunity to try that model in particular ?
 
I'm only really familiar with the Pro model.

Bob from Force Fins graciously sent me some other models to trial, but they got lost in the Philippines post service (sadly not uncommon...the bane of my life)
 
Well, this starts to sound a lot like "i can easily back kick in split fins"...
 
With practice, one can back-kick effectively with no fins.

Nonetheless, split fins are quite contrary to the characteristics needed to back kick kick. Long, non-rigid, fins reduce the direct feedback... the 'purchase' after 'loading' the stroke.

Force Fins aren't long, flexible fins. They're short and relatively stiff across the side aspect. The 'curved' blade gives significant surface area to find that 'purchase'... and the foot pocket, which is very deep and stiff-walled, gives you direct feedback and good control.

See how UTD define positive features in relation to their Jet-type fin..

Screenshot_2017-01-08-15-21-13.png


Force Fins:
Short wide blade with curve. ✅
Comfortable, deep foot pocket ✅

Force Fins are flexible only in the power phase of a flutter kick. They bend 'backwards'. They're actually very snappy in recovery to the loading phase...thats where the stiffness lies. They're also very stiff across the width.

Back-kick relies on a stiff surface area across the side of the fin. Force Fins provide that. Obviously, split fins don't.

Frog kick relies on stiffness against the bottom of the fin. Force Fins have stiffness in that direction. They don't bend 'up'.... a product of the materials used and the curved design. Obviously, split fins don't provide this.

What's more... with some practice you learn to make use of the curved design. That's where nuanced ankle rotation comes into play.... and why frog kick might not look 'proper' in Force Fins. What you see is experienced users accessing the curved blade to better cup (and move) water.

Hard to explain, easy to demonstrate... but if you're only looking for a 'proper' paddle-type fin motion, then you'll remain confused about their performance.
 
Just to be sure, you are referring to the Deep 6 Eddy Fins, right?

If so, thanks for posting. I was thinking about trying them, simply as an alternative to Jets. But, it sounds (from your comments) like they don't provide the propulsion I would want.

I'd still recommend trying them, rather than taking one person's word for it. Fin performance often boils down to little more than personal preference. I purchased a pair of the Deep Six Eddy fins prior to heading off to the Red Sea in August, where I put about 28 dives on them over a nine day period. I thought they were great ... as responsive in all kicks as my OMS Slipstreams, and more comfortable. I was diving a Hollis Katana (also new for this trip) and using twin AL80's for all of my dives.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 

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