Today!

[dumpsterDiver]

I still don't believe that you would do this dive as you described. What a very stupid thread to start. You chose to dive without a bottom timer and a means to monitor your depth so it becomes your son’s problem. You keep saying things about you son like, “…he is not looking at his computer and I look again soon after and we are at 42 feet. So I am pissed.” Also, “I try to signal to him that he needs to look at his computer and that he needs to modulate our ascent.” “I am getting super frustrated that he is not looking at his computer intently and bringing us up slowly and uniformly.” But you chose to leave your son and go back down for more lobsters. Then you add, “I decide to mention not a word about how pissed I was about his failure to modulate the ascent (at least until we are on the boat).”

Tomfcrist please take over and point out why this dive, even done, should have never had been posted here or anywhere else for that matter.

I had a watch. I never said I had no timing device.

I left him and went to the bottom before we were really starting the ascent. We were following from like 45 or 50 feet when I received the signal to descend. Also, although it wasn't that clear, my son also descended, because when I left the bottom before the third bug was put in the bag, my son retrieved it from the other diver.

As for not mentioning my dismay with my son's sloppiness on the ascent... As we were floating on the surface, lost, with no boat in sight, and after the fishing boat within sight provided no acknowledgement, I thought that this might be stressful enough for my young son. I didn't see a lot of value in criticizing him, until we were safely back on the boat. I think that was a reasonable decision. Perhaps you disagree.

As for Tom F'n Crist... he's made the ignore list...

 

[Lost down under]

I had a watch. I never said I had no timing device.
As for not mentioning my dismay with my son's sloppiness on the ascent... As we were floating on the surface, lost, with no boat in sight, and after the fishing boat within sight provided no acknowledgement, I thought that this might be stressful enough for my young son. I didn't see a lot of value in criticizing him, until we were safely back on the boat. I think that was a reasonable decision. Perhaps you disagree.

As for Tom F'n Crist... he's made the ignore list...

I think Tony Chaney was pointing out that perhaps you should share more of the blame for what was a truly sloppy dive. You weren't asking your son to take leadership, you where asking him to babysit yourself and the third buddy.

The situation which Is far from normal was a direct result of poor decision making, an authoritative figure that other divers clearly didn't feel comfortable in challenging (naturally you being the father) and relying on an inexperienced diver to take charge in a potentially dangerous situation. To make the situation worse you decided to increase the task loading by asking him to deploy a DSMB for ‘practice’ another suggestion that you failed to realise the gravity of the situation that was unfolding.


If you had posted “hands up, I screwed this one up” I would have perceived the post in a completely different light, but by defending your decisions you refuse to take any responsibility, “behavior that is befitting of a gentleman” in my book.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think Tony Chaney was pointing out that perhaps you should share more of the blame for what was a truly sloppy dive. You weren't asking your son to take leadership, you where asking him to babysit yourself and the third buddy.

The situation which Is far from normal was a direct result of poor decision making, an authoritative figure that other divers clearly didn't feel comfortable in challenging (naturally you being the father) and relying on an inexperienced diver to take charge in a potentially dangerous situation. To make the situation worse you decided to increase the task loading by asking him to deploy a DSMB for ‘practice’ another suggestion that you failed to realise the gravity of the situation that was unfolding.


If you had posted “hands up, I screwed this one up” I would have perceived the post in a completely different light, but by defending your decisions you refuse to take any responsibility, “behavior that is befitting of a gentleman” in my book.

The ascent issues were not that big of a deal (in reality). I had a pony bottle, so the yo yo issues were inconsequential beacuse i had more than enough air to deal with it. I could have simply held my sons computer and then modulated our ascent myself... There would have been no problem with that. I could have relied upon the third buddy's computer (as mentioned previously) but I wanted (and expected) my son to perform better than he did.

As for task loading him with the SMB .. that is something i expect him t be able to do well. On the previous weekend of diving, he went down with a tank filled to almost 4,000 psi and as we ran out of time on the second dive, he was coming up with 2500 psi left. I figured either he or I could definitely get another dive out of that tank, so I figured we should save his air. So, spur of the moment, I decided that he would share air with me. I asked him to buddy breath from my tank, (not use an octopus which I don't have anyway) while we hung on our safety stop on an SMB drifting. I like to take these little opportunities to use as training and practice drills, in case something serious happens. I want him to be able to function independently. He had no idea why i wanted him to share air with me, but he complied without a problem.

As I recall from my post, I DID take responsibility for the ascent sloppiness by acknowledging that i had not yet forced him to be the leader on ascents (and very precisely use his computer to accomplish that).

 

[TONY CHANEY]

4000 psi in a tank...nice. Which ones are you using?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

4000 psi in a tank...nice. Which ones are you using?

Oh I don't know.. those ones that are short and fat an 8 inches around... Is it a problem if they over fill my tank alittle now?

 

[Lost down under]

As I recall from my post, I DID take responsibility for the ascent sloppiness by acknowledging that i had not yet forced him to be the leader on ascents (and very precisely use his computer to accomplish that).

I don't understand this concept of 'ascent leader', although you took responsibility for his training it was my interpretation of the post that you didn't take responsibility for that specific incident.

Myself I despise 'sloppy' dives and don't think they should happen as routine. Perhaps it's because of my background but I can quickly see a few bad decisions becoming a major issue in no time at all and I do my level best to avoid it.

As another poster said given this is in basic discussion I think it would be irresponsible of us not to probe the post further and ask questions so that people can see the issues in your decision making process.

I'm sure your son learnt some valuable lessons although I suspect most came to him before you brought it up on the boat.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Oh I don't know.. those ones that are short and fat an 8 inches around... Is it a problem if they over fill my tank alittle now?

Oh you know how those fill nazi's are around here,
the floor's going to open up and you're going straight to hell pal!

 

[AfterDark]

I don't think that anybody took your posting as a lesson learned.

Their loss. Every dive is a learning experience and every post has the same potential. It listen to some of these "divers" I should have been dead decades ago. What a bunch of wind!

I dove for 39 years without a computer. I still leave it in my bag for some dives.

 

[tomfcrist]

I don't think that anybody took your posting as a lesson learned.

Their loss. Every dive is a learning experience and every post has the same potential. It listen to some of these "divers" I should have been dead decades ago. What a bunch of wind!

I dove for 39 years without a computer. I still leave it in my bag for some dives.

This has nothing to do with not diving with a computer.

It has to do with a former instructor who "teaches" his kids how to dive, while blasting active instructors as being inadequate. He then proceeds to show his kids that it's ok to break the very rules that he supposedly taught them, but also gets pissed off when his inadequately trained kids don't perform to his expectations....probably because he doesn't practice what he preaches, and didn't do a very good job teaching them to be reliable divers to begin with.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread was reported to moderators because both the opening post and many that follow advocate unsafe dive practices. ScubaBoard does not advocate unsafe dive practices and does not permit them to be openly encouraged, especially in the Basic Diving Forum. This thread has been closed with a moderator message at the start of the thread to ensure that readers understand immediately that ScubaBoard does not support unsafe practices.

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