To those considering an OW class...

[Dive-aholic]

Stacy, the 2 day class is referring to Open Water. AOW is a little different. When to take AOW is a personal thing. Some students take it right away. Others wait a while. I make it a case by case thing. I may encourage a student to dive a while before continuing with AOW or I may not. Everyone is different.

 

[peterbj7]

Haven't read all this - too little time. But who teaches an OW course in 2 days? I know I can't. Here it's 3 full days if the student works and the weather co-operates, and maybe 4 otherwise. In the UK it's generally 4, or used to be.

Whoever referred to market forces summed it up well. In Britain the BSAC used to teach exclusively in a club environment and turned out excellent dedicated divers, but the dropout rate was enormous. Mainly because of the months it took rather than the intensity of learning. We needed a compromise solution, but it has swung rather too far towards the accessible.

One of the big modern agencies was severely censured by the British authorities after a fatality on an AOW course in 40F water in a flooded quarry. Essentially because the instructor applied warm water standards and practices to a cold water course, and the agency was deemed to have endorsed this practice. The agency claimed this was wrong as it stated at the bottom of P.97 (I jest) that the instructor should take due account of local conditions. The authorities held that because everything else in the course was tightly prescriptive and this most important caveat wasn't, the agency had not taken adequate measures to guide the instructor. Or words to that effect. A good ruling that unfortunately has had virtually nil effect.

Although I run a warm water resort operation and we do train divers, I strongly believe and recommend that divers join a club near their home and participate at least to some extent year-round. I also try to persuade people to try cold water diving, but the bulk of warm water divers we get here won't even consider that.

 

[peterbj7]

PADI still has the Suba Diver certification that only provide for 3 Confined Water and 2 Open Water dives, then requires professional supervision to dive. Very few people I know opt for this certification.

It's a very popular course here.

 

[jbichsel]

You learn to do any sport by "playing" it. What would a tennis player be after a couple of lessons. What would tiger woods be without getting out there. Learn the basics and get in the water. When I went through my class my 'dive captain' friend told me that the dive instructor would certify me and he would TEACH ME TO DIVE. He was so right. I learned a lot from my SSI instructor but I learned how to dive from doing it.

Tiger Woods is also a cave diver. I'd like to hear his opinion on OW certification.

 

[jbichsel]

So how long should someone wait after being certified before taking the 2 day AOW? Ok bad way to state it. How many dives should one have before hand? The class is quick and someone told me that use to they wanted you to have some dives in and know what your doing. When I was finishing up my OW the instructor said if we wanted we could take the AOW right away. He said its good before you start to pick up bad habits.

Thoughts?
Stacy

My thought is that instructor is promoting bad habits by recommending you take the "AOW" course on the pretext it will prevent "bad habits". What is his rationale? If your only dive training and experience has been OW class and he was your instructor, IF he did his job properly, you should not have "bad habits".

Sounds like he's trying to make some more money. If it's a PADI class, it's not really Advanced Open Water anymore. It's Adventures in Diving. The way it's taught by many instructors, it's basically worthless as a training program, it's just for making easy money.

 

[dolphinfish]

I think everyone has forgotten that scuba diving is a recreational activity for many. That's exactly what the OW cert. is for. If you want to go further & be a divemaster or do tech diving, that's a whole different world.

It's my understanding that the hours spent in these 2 day cert. courses are the same as ones in courses that last weeks. It's just crammed into two long days. PADI is the regulatory body here. Someone from that agency obviously came to the conclusion that it was acceptable to complete the classroom & pool stuff in a couple long-hour-day sessions. I think everyone out there needs to accept what the accrediting body has decided.

Next question is why does everyone expect OW cert. divers to be such flawless divers? It's the same thing with a newly licensed nurse, lawyer, etc, etc. You have a license to practice but that doesn't mean you know everything there is to know. Same with diving certifications. Just because you're certified doesn't mean you automatically know it all. You learn so much from diving - same as all of us professionals out there learn so much every day of our career.

One thing that tends to upset me is when dive shops put restrictions on divers based on whether or not they have an advanced certification. For instance, can't dive the Spiegal Grove in the Keys if you're not AOW. What sense does it make? You only complete 5 more dives (& a little book work) to get your AOW. Those could have been done in a quarry in Ohio. Those dive shops in the Keys are ready to let someone dive the Spiegal who has quite possibly never been diving in the ocean let alone in any current. Why does AOW make someone more "qualified" to dive the Spiegal than an OW cert. diver with over 50 or 100 dives?? It's foolish to think the AOW diver is a better diver. You get better the more you dive.

Oh well. Not trying to stir up too much. Just remember, diving is a recreational activity. Yes, it can be a dangerous sport but so can skiing and you don't have to be certified to ski (least I don't think you do). I think it's wise to have some sort of training/certification for diving. I think the certifications in place are more than adequate for the vast majority of divers.

 

[jbd]

So how long should someone wait after being certified before taking the 2 day AOW? Ok bad way to state it. How many dives should one have before hand? The class is quick and someone told me that use to they wanted you to have some dives in and know what your doing. When I was finishing up my OW the instructor said if we wanted we could take the AOW right away. He said its good before you start to pick up bad habits.

Thoughts?
Stacy

I agree to some extent with Dive-aholic it that it varies with the person. Like Azza, I'm an independent instructor and following my own prudence as well as agency standards I do screen my propsective AOW students. If that propsective student doesn't have the ability to dive to the level I expect to handle the course then we don't start the course. At that point the prospective student is free to either find another instructor or we can make arrangements to get them properly squared away and ready to take the course. I have outright turned down one person after the screening dives.

Some folks may have the ability after 10 or 15 dives post certification others may not be ready until 25 or 30 dives post OW certification.

 

[jbd]

PADI is the regulatory body here.

PADI is not a regulatory body. They are but one of many certifying agencies.

 

[jbd]

Next question is why does everyone expect OW cert. divers to be such flawless divers? It's the same thing with a newly licensed nurse, lawyer, etc, etc. You have a license to practice but that doesn't mean you know everything there is to know. Same with diving certifications. Just because you're certified doesn't mean you automatically know it all. You learn so much from diving - same as all of us professionals out there learn so much every day of our career.

I was a nurse for several years and while I agree that I knew far less in the beginning than in the end of my tenure I damn sure wasn't allowed to make any mistakes just because I was new. There just simply isn't room for mistakes based on newness in nursing, medicine or diving for that matter. The consequences are just too high.

Why do I expect my OW divers to be highly competent at diving? Because its my name on the insurance policy that the newly minted lawyer will be coming after along with any other assets they may deem to come after.

 

[jbd]

One thing that tends to upset me is when dive shops put restrictions on divers based on whether or not they have an advanced certification. For instance, can't dive the Spiegal Grove in the Keys if you're not AOW. What sense does it make? You only complete 5 more dives (& a little book work) to get your AOW. Those could have been done in a quarry in Ohio. Those dive shops in the Keys are ready to let someone dive the Spiegal who has quite possibly never been diving in the ocean let alone in any current. Why does AOW make someone more "qualified" to dive the Spiegal than an OW cert. diver with over 50 or 100 dives?? It's foolish to think the AOW diver is a better diver. You get better the more you dive.

Again thia all goes back to liability. At least one of those AOW dives is supposed to be a deep dive for virtually all agencies. This is one small way that the dive operation can say to the courts--look, this guy/gal had training in deep diving and understood the risk and problems related to deep diving.

If you ever get named in a lawsuit based on your professional status you will understand this.