To those considering an OW class...

[Walter]

The standards are only as good as the person following them.

If the standards are followed and the result is not a good diver, the instructor is not at fault. The fault lies solely with those who wrote the standards - the individual agency.

I dove with an insta-buddy in the late 1980's. He and his wife had each been certified by YMCA, and all they had were two open water dives.

Prior to 1986 there was a SCUBA Diver certification, in addition to the OW vertification. THe classes were identical except OW required 4 dives while SD required only 2. SD certified divers were required to dive with an octopus, OW divers were not.

The main problem with that is that most people are not interested. They want quick and easy and done.

I don't want them in my class.

 

[jbichsel]

Originally Posted by Ann Marie
The standards are only as good as the person following them.

If the standards are followed and the result is not a good diver, the instructor is not at fault. The fault lies solely with those who wrote the standards - the individual agency.

Walter, thanks for putting so succinctly what I have been trying to say.


Originally Posted by BiggDawg
I dove with an insta-buddy in the late 1980's. He and his wife had each been certified by YMCA, and all they had were two open water dives.

Prior to 1986 there was a SCUBA Diver certification, in addition to the OW vertification. THe classes were identical except OW required 4 dives while SD required only 2. SD certified divers were required to dive with an octopus, OW divers were not.

PADI still has the Suba Diver certification that only provide for 3 Confined Water and 2 Open Water dives, then requires professional supervision to dive. Very few people I know opt for this certification.

Originally Posted by Azza
The main problem with that is that most people are not interested. They want quick and easy and done.

I don't want them in my class.

Ditto. In a big way.

 

[BiggDawg]

PADI still has the Suba Diver certification that only provide for 3 Confined Water and 2 Open Water dives, then requires professional supervision to dive. Very few people I know opt for this certification.

Interesting that PADI doesn't even list this on their website, either in the
Start Diving http://www.padi.com/padi/en/sd/default.aspx
description, or in the
Scuba Courses http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/padicourses.aspx
section, where they jump directly from "Discover Scuba Diving" (the resort course type intro) to "Open Water."

If they are embarrassed enough to omit it from the website, why do they still offer it?

 

[Walter]

PADI still has the Suba Diver certification that only provide for 3 Confined Water and 2 Open Water dives, then requires professional supervision to dive. Very few people I know opt for this certification.

Actually, they have it again. It was eliminated when minimum standards for the industry were released at DEMA in January, 1986 (prior to RSTC formation). They recently developed this "new" program. The major difference is the pre 1986 certification did not require supervision.

 

[jbichsel]

Interesting that PADI doesn't even list this on their website, either in the
Start Diving http://www.padi.com/padi/en/sd/default.aspx
description, or in the
Scuba Courses http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/padicourses.aspx
section, where they jump directly from "Discover Scuba Diving" (the resort course type intro) to "Open Water."

If they are embarrassed enough to omit it from the website, why do they still offer it?

Hmmm.... Interesting. I've not viewed those pages before.

If you look at http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/rec/begin/dsdsd.asp

you will see in the paragraph "Where can I go from here?", it does mention "....PADI Scuba Diver or Open Water Diver certifications."

Also at http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/rec/begin/openwater.asp

under "Why PADI Open Water", you will find "If you already tried a PADI Discover Scuba Diving experience or are PADI Scuba Diver certified, check with your instructor to see how credit from these courses may apply to the open water program."

It probably is not marketed heavily since it would cost less and I'm sure that turns off a lot if instructors/shops.

I'll ask this of PADI this afternoon since I'll be asking them some more questions.:light:

 

[Thalassamania]

Jerry,

It's my belief that the use of the word "mastery" is quite intentional. I know these folks and they're not just the empty suit marketeers they sometimes appear to be. I'd guess that this was done to provide an out for a really bad lawsuit.

As in: "The standards say that he should not be certified unless he had 'mastery' of the skill, so it's not PADI's fault, it's the instructor who did not follow the standards and certified him anyway. We wash our hands of it."

You see it’s Catch-22, under PADI standards no student is legitimately certified without breaking standards.

 

[seadoggirl]

You learn to do any sport by "playing" it. What would a tennis player be after a couple of lessons. What would tiger woods be without getting out there. Learn the basics and get in the water. When I went through my class my 'dive captain' friend told me that the dive instructor would certify me and he would TEACH ME TO DIVE. He was so right. I learned a lot from my SSI instructor but I learned how to dive from doing it.

 

[seadoggirl]

Additionally, I do not agree with 2 day classes. A DM once told me that they are the McDonald's Happy Meals of the dive industry. Quick and easy but not a lot to them

 

[Azza]

I don't want them in my class.

Neither do I...Which is why I am independant, and why I screen my potential students.

 

[Dive 'N' Dolphin]

So how long should someone wait after being certified before taking the 2 day AOW? Ok bad way to state it. How many dives should one have before hand? The class is quick and someone told me that use to they wanted you to have some dives in and know what your doing. When I was finishing up my OW the instructor said if we wanted we could take the AOW right away. He said its good before you start to pick up bad habits.

Thoughts?
Stacy