Tipping on a LOB in Indonesia

[BikerManiac]

I was on a LOB a few years ago where my dive buddy and I were the only Americans on board. The rest of the guests were from Italy, Australia, Singapore and Germany. When I went to settle my bill I gave my tip to the purser and she had a surprised look on her face. I asked what was the matter? Was the tip insufficient? It was 10% ( this was a high end LOB) She responded that I was the only guest on the boat to leave a tip. On a more recent trip I was told that they preferred that we did not leave a tip as Americans were getting the reputation of tipping and the staff were giving the Americans all of the attention. I think that most LOB's do expect tipping however. On a trip this year that was land based, I had an outstanding DM and although when in Indonesia I do not normally tip privately, I did give this DM a private tip. He looked at me with a shocked look on his face and said " is this for me?" I said yes and he got tears in his eyes. At any rate, I think that when traveling in Indo the best thing to do with tipping is give what your comfortable with and you will be fine.

When I began diving, I didn't know tipping was needed or expected. Over the years I have learned that tipping is expected in almost all the Caribbean. The 2 liveaboards I have done (Belize and Thailand), there was a speech about tipping at the end of the trip.

I will be on the Mermaid I soon and I already calculated I have to bring $300 USD for tips.

In Asia, tip may not be expected. But surely they are appreciated a lot more. I remember we hired a driver in Bali for the entire day and gave him a $20 USD tip at the end of the day. He was super happy. The look on his face was well worth the money.

 

[Dan]

When I began diving, I didn't know tipping was needed or expected. Over the years I have learned that tipping is expected in almost all the Caribbean. The 2 liveaboards I have done (Belize and Thailand), there was a speech about tipping at the end of the trip.

I will be on the Mermaid I soon and I already calculated I have to bring $300 USD for tips.

In Asia, tip may not be expected. But surely they are appreciated a lot more. I remember we hired a driver in Bali for the entire day and gave him a $20 USD tip at the end of the day. He was super happy. The look on his face was well worth the money.

Of course he was. You just gave him 50% tip. I can hire a van with driver for all day in Bali for $40.

 

[BikerManiac]

Of course he was. You just gave him 50% tip. I can hire a van with driver for all day in Bali for $40.

I will always remember this. We hired a car and this 10-12 people microbus comes to pick us up. We were only 2 people in the entire bus. My buddy and I were confused but played along. We went all over Bali for 8+ hours. In the middle of the trip we started questioning if gas was included in the price.

We started assuming it was not included since it only cost us ~$40-$50 to rent it.This is when gas prices in the US were $3+ a gallon.

When he dropped us off at our hotel, we asked how much it was and he said it was $40-$50. We were in shocked!. Gave him a nice tip and said good bye.

Back then, it used to cost me $70 bucks to fill up my car!!.

Ahhhhh. Good memories

 

[Lorenzoid]

So because prices and wages are generally lower in Country X compared with one's home Country Y, making one feel relatively wealthy when visiting Country X, one should tip massively? There are a lot of good rationales raised in these tipping threads, but I just can't agree with that one. A driver in Bali, even one with a nice vehicle, may make what is considered by local standards a pretty good living even without tips. I tip drivers in Bali, but the size of my tip is not influenced by my feeling of being a "wealthy foreigner." For purposes of calculating a tip, it's irrelevant to me that the price of being driven around for 8 hours is less than it costs back in the US to fill up my car.

So, for example, confining the scenario to tipping just within one's home country, I wouldn't expect Warren Buffett to leave a restaurant server a 50% tip just because the meal costs peanuts from Warren's perspective. Sure, wealthy people have been known to leave huge tips, but I don't think they should serve as an example for the rest of us to live by when we visit countries in which the relative prices and wages make us feel like we're all Warren Buffetts.

 

[muzzon]

Understand that tipping is largely a North American phenomenon. Americans are considered good tippers because it's the norm at restaurants where the tip is the majority of the waiters'/waitresses' income. In Canada it's the norm to tip 15% at a restaurant, though they usually make more per hour than in the US.

Europeans are generally considered worse tippers because it's not part of their customs, not because they're cheap. From my time living in France, I learned it's generally normal to leave the change from the bill. For example if your meal is 18.50 Euros, you just leave a 20. In some parts of the world, like many countries in SE Asia, it's actually considered offensive and arrogant to tip. In my experience, that was made clear by some of the waiters' reactions I saw in Cambodia and Thailand.

However, as more North American tourists go to places like Indonesia, it's becoming more accepted. The locals aren't making a lot of money, so it's hard to say no. I also think that a liveaboard is different than eating at a restaurant and the staff may be more deserving; even in a country where tipping is not normal. I agree that on a LOB tipping 5-10% is normal.

 

[BikerManiac]

So because prices and wages are generally lower in Country X compared with one's home Country Y, making one feel relatively wealthy when visiting Country X, one should tip massively?

You should feel wealthy. Specially when visiting developing countries. It's always humbling when I go abroad and makes you realize how good you have it back at home.

I don't have issues given good tips for great service. Even more so when that tip means so much more to them.

 

[mmmbelows]

Understand that tipping is largely a North American phenomenon. Americans are considered good tippers because it's the norm at restaurants where the tip is the majority of the waiters'/waitresses' income. In Canada it's the norm to tip 15% at a restaurant, though they usually make more per hour than in the US.

Europeans are generally considered worse tippers because it's not part of their customs, not because they're cheap. From my time living in France, I learned it's generally normal to leave the change from the bill. For example if your meal is 18.50 Euros, you just leave a 20. In some parts of the world, like many countries in SE Asia, it's actually considered offensive and arrogant to tip. In my experience, that was made clear by some of the waiters' reactions I saw in Cambodia and Thailand.

However, as more North American tourists go to places like Indonesia, it's becoming more accepted. The locals aren't making a lot of money, so it's hard to say no. I also think that a liveaboard is different than eating at a restaurant and the staff may be more deserving; even in a country where tipping is not normal. I agree that on a LOB tipping 5-10% is normal.

The proper way to tip is thus - tip based on the country you are visiting not based on where you come from. (You are no longer in the country you come from, you're in the country you are visiting, duh!)

A European IS cheap if he visits a country where 15% tips are the culture and he doesn't follow the culture. It doesn't matter if tipping isn't part of his culture back home, he isn't home. When in another country you follow their culture, you should no more stiff someone in a tipping culture than you should use your left hand to touch someone in a Muslim country. An American over tipping is just as dumb as a European under tipping, both of those people need to expand the depth of their cultural knowledge before their visit.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You should feel wealthy. Specially when visiting developing countries. It's always humbling when I go abroad and makes you realize how good you have it back at home.

Yes, I agree totally. I love traveling to developing countries. I do feel privileged by comparison with many people I encounter on my travels. But I try not to let it affect how much I tip. If the local custom is, for example, 10 percent for good service, a bit more for exceptional service, that's pretty much what I do, regardless of whether the person's status in life is poor, middle-class, wealthy, or whatever. As much as I would like every country's citizens to be as well off as I and my fellow traveling divers are, I am just a diver on vacation, not a charity provider. If I want to do some charitable giving--which I do--there are other ways to donate money or services to the poor. (Judging by the number of Europeans who do just that, I wouldn't dare call them "cheap"--they just don't conflate tipping and charity in their minds.) Please understand I'm not trying to persuade you to think as I do; this is just conversation.

I don't have issues given good tips for great service.

Me neither. I absolutely agree. In most countries outside of the US, the purpose of a tip is for the most part viewed as it has historically been: as a reward for superior or unexpectedly good service.

Even more so when that tip means so much more to them.

BZZZ! That's where you and I disagree. That is charity, not a reward for superior service.

 

[muzzon]

Yes mmmbelows, that's exactly what I am saying. In some countries tipping is offensive, so don't hold yourself on a high horse if you tip 15% where others aren't tipping. Follow their customs because 15% may just be 15% more offensive than normal.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Yes mmmbelows, that's exactly what I am saying. In some countries tipping is offensive, so don't hold yourself on a high horse if you tip 15% where others aren't tipping. Follow their customs because 15% may just be 15% more offensive than normal.

In all fairness, I can't imagine that with American influence permeating every corner of the world today, there is any place left in which the recipient of a "tip" would find it offensive. Maybe. I dunno. If I leave a 15% tip on the table in, say, Belgium, where tipping is unheard of except by tourists, the waiter just thinks I'm another idiot American; he's not "offended."

But I do agree with your philosophy to follow local custom. With the Internet at our fingertips, it's easy to find out what is customary anywhere we travel today--as evidenced by the hundreds of threads on SB in which someone asks what's customary.