Tipping - how much and are we cheap

[oly5050user]

A boat captain I knows says divers are the cheapest group around for getting tips. I've heard that other places too. How come? I know fish charters get decent tips.

Or maybe I should ask, what's expected for a tip when on a dive charter?

Furthermore, what about a tip for a dive instructor? Mine just finished my daughter's cert. It took an extra open water dive but her worked with her and did a great a job. So I gave him a tip. Seemed the right thing to do.

What's the feeling out there for tipping.

you did the right thing to tip the instructor..he most likely did not get paid for doing the extra dive with your daughter..I am sure he appreciated it..

 

[AlexMDiver]

I've always thought that the Scuba industry has pushed too hard to be a recreational sport for everyone. With all the emphasis on the "everyone can do it", a lot of divers out there just don't realize what my instructors and staff go through each and everyday. We are taking people underwater on a life-support system for gosh sakes! How in the heck is that the same as someone bringing you food? We take them out, keep track of them, show them the neat stuff, get them out of the water, wash and store their gear, and they drop a Lincoln on us. WOW!:shakehead

Most of us do it cuz we love it. But that doesn't mean that a nice tip and a thank you wouldn't be appreciated. Check with your local dive boat staff, they'll have a pretty good idea of who will and who won't tip before the group even gets wet.

I agree with some of what you say, and even more so if you were doing this all for free. But boat trips are expensive in many areas, why I am not so sure.
You mention all the things you do for the customer, but it is not mentioned that the customer paid 50 bucks a head already for the boat dive. That is 500 bucks for a 10 people boat dive (more if gear is rented). Should that not pay for some service.

It surprises me that you already make an opinion "before a group even gets wet" on who will or won't tip. This sort of stuff just pressures people into tipping and is the reason for this discussion. A tip should always be appreciated, but never expected or taken for granted. DMs should make enough on their salary. Diving is not an industry that will likely make you wealthy. Being a DM is hard work, but also rewarding, and should be so with or without tip. They should show interesting things to customers underwater and run a safe operation not for a tip, but because this is their job description.

Instead as a customer I can tell which DM is working "just for the tip" and which DM is actually sincere in their passion for diving.

I understand that tips are great for motivating and supporting the DM, but you give the view of "don't dare come back if you don't leave a juicy tip (since a Lincoln is clearly not appreciated)".

As I said before, I do tip generously, but do not see the need. A bad DM should not just get no tip, he should get a warning and or be fired. Plenty of other jobs to do....like delivering pizza for example.
Otherwise I do not see that DMing and the diving industry is sustainable in the long run as the way it currently functions.

 

[oly5050user]

In So Cal here is how it typically works (there are exceptions) The dive shops buy the whole boat and crew for something like $1,500.00 for a trip to Calalina. This is a 25 mile each way trip which might mean a five hours fuel burn. The captain is typically also the boat's owner. He pays the boat crew and does boat maintaince and fuel cost and so on all out of that $1,500. He typically runs two trips a weekend in the summer one in winter. The dive shops charge divers typicaly 100% above thier cost to charter the boat (assumes a full load of paying divers) but the shops will put on a DM and instructors if they are running clases. DMs and instructors don't pay and take up a spot from an otherwise paying diver. The shop makes good money (for little effort) if the boat sells out but could easly loose a grand if there is a light load.. The DM's are supplied by the shop but typically don't do much as the boat captains can give better briefings and DMs do not get in the water in So Cal. They stay aboard with ther cipboads, count divers and are ready to do a rescue if need be. DM's are either paid abut $50 (for a 12 hour day) or simply allowed to dive on a boat for free later. Most say they are not doing this for money and don't expect it. Buy them a beer and some food for the ride back. Boat crews do mostly have a tip jar. Some casuallymention it others are quiet about it. That $1,500 does get spread thinly with $3.00/gal fuel. So they can use the tips

In a resort area it is different. I think there the norm is that the boat is owned by the dive company and all the crew, DMs included are paid by the hour or day. While here in So Cal some of the DM's might of day jobs that pay 6 figures this is never true of crews in resort areas.

true on everything except how much the lds gets for the seat on boat..here in NY its pretty much a break even thing..at $50.for a 2 tank dive in LI Sound we have to get 6 people to break even..the boat carries 8..do the math..after paying a instr/dm to crew there is not much left ..

 

[pir8]

Maybe in the US... Here in Canada we have a minimum wage... ANYONE here in BC, Canada CAN NOT make under $8.25hr.

Wow, you can really support a family on $8.25/hr in luxury huh

 

[BIGG_BUDD]

$20 for 2-3 dives seems to go over really well.

 

[VGdiver]

I agree with some of what you say, and even more so if you were doing this all for free. But boat trips are expensive in many areas, why I am not so sure.
You mention all the things you do for the customer, but it is not mentioned that the customer paid 50 bucks a head already for the boat dive. That is 500 bucks for a 10 people boat dive (more if gear is rented). Should that not pay for some service.

Boat trips are very expensive. We have been paying $4.25/gal for diesel for the past year and a half. We run a 36' Newton Dive Special for 12 guests max. If I put more guests on the boat, it would be a bit cheaper (not much due to the added weight of people, tanks, lead, gear, etc.) but it would also make for a more crowded boat. I would rather pay a little more and have a lot more room than save a few bucks and sit on someone's lap for 4 hours while out diving.

It surprises me that you already make an opinion "before a group even gets wet" on who will or won't tip. This sort of stuff just pressures people into tipping and is the reason for this discussion.

There is no pressure put on anyone. We do not work less for guests who do not tip. We all try to outdo each other and try to show our guests the best possible time they could have. We treat each guest as if this is their one and only chance to dive so we make it as awesome as possible. We know that they could spend their money in a lot of other places doing a lot of other different things. When they choose to spend it with us, we make sure they get more than their money's worth. I just dove with a guy on Friday who has been diving with my company for over 25 years. He and I were visited by a bottlenose dolphin, eagle ray, hawksbill turtle and king mackeral on one dive in 40 feet of water. He tipped me $75 for the experience. I was just happy to be the one diving with him when all of this happened. I did not pressure him into anything.

Final thought and then I'm out:

Diving isn't a cheap sport. But there are some cheap sports in it!

Please don't even think of flaming me for that cuz we all know it's true!!!!

 

[pir8]

Well here is a biased answer from a dive guide.....

My prices are set up so the person who goes on the tour gets the service and I dont lose money. I take resposibility for tipping all of the workers, cooks, hotels, and resturants because I know that If I leave it up to my customers than the tipping will be huge on one trip and nothing on the next. Its not because of different service but because as we see in this thread people have different opinions about tipping.

I know when I go into town that I can depend on all of my connections to hook me up with the services I need. As a returning and consistent guide I need them to survive. The customers can leave and never return, they dont have to worry about if they could have possibly made any one mad. Some feel that if you are in the "Service Industry" than you should be treated like crap and you are expected to perform a level of service that "they" expect. I guess if we would do away with tips than you can also expect to lower the amount of "friendly" service you would expect.

Some expect to not tip, they feel they have paid for a service. A two tank dive for instance. In my case its a 5 day trip. If I apply that same way of thinking I could say that I am providing just the boat and a ride. If you need help changing your tank, loading your gear(90% of people carry too much s$#T),getting your weight belt off of the bottom after you goofed it and dropped it at the back of the boat. Helping on with your tank, pointing out some cool stuff, etc. than you must pay extra. I could have a list on the side of my boat.

Mask defog.....2.00 per use
extra weight.....1.00per pound
loading your gear....1.00 per pound
listening to your last dive story.....15,000.00 per story
having to hear how the vis was 300 ft on your last vacation......20,000.00 per story
Having to take care of YOUR overboyant partner for 4 dives....20 per dive
Telling you quietly that your 1st stage is on backwards.....100

I guess that this rant list of mine could get pretty big.

My point is that people need to know that there is alot more to taking a group out on a dive trip than meets the eye. What you expect to give as service is going to be different for every person. some will need no help, some need alot. If you dont tip the crew or divemaster or guide than you are screwing them. They have no idea what type of person you are and what your needs are untill you show up on the back of the boat. Then they have to adapt and provide you with the custom service that the particular person may need. your mom may need different attention than the 23 year old son. Its that custom service that you pay your tip for.

that being said when I ran fishing charters I got bigger tips, with freediving, and scuba charters they are less. :shakehead

As a guide, the extra service I provide proves by my actions that I give a s#@t and I want to make the experience better for you, your tip is you saying thankyou.

You dont have to say thank you in the world, its just a nice thing to do.

Advice for the non tippers of the world.....

Dont go to the same place twice:mooner:

:11:

Wow I wish that I had made this rant. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

Wow, you can really support a family on $8.25/hr in luxury huh

That's canadian dollars too :11: Livin in style I bet :14:

 

[ChillyWaters]

I haven't read the whole thread and am not about to, but perhaps it is not us that is cheap, but the employers. If the employees made a reasonable wage for what they do, then they wouldn't have to rely on tips.

Bill.

I love the fights over tipping. There was a thread a while ago about the culture differences in tipping...

As for Canada vs U.S., Canadians generally tip a bit less, though I feel there is still a lot of pressure to tip well. I've always found it odd considering the high minimum wage. I've known many waitresses who make a damn good wage to support themselves through school. Put on a little short skirt, flirt with the patrons, and walk home with some good cash.

Canada may be next to the U.S., but we still have different cultures. We're not cheap, we just have different societies and higher minimum wages. I lived in Australia, and I liked that fact that you didn't pay tips. I hate those "extra fees." I also wish they would put the taxes into the advertised costs as well... Let me see $x for service, then I have to add in my head, x * (1 + 0.14 + 0.15)... it's just stupid.

Sure, we could reward good/bad servers (either DMs or waitresses), but then why shouldn't the employer make sure his employees are doing a good job -- in non-union jobs. (Don't get me started about unions.)

- ChillyWaters

 

[ChillyWaters]

That's canadian dollars too :11: Livin in style I bet :14:

Should someone making minimum wage be living in luxury? I think not. Usually people are encouraged to contribute to society, excel, and (in the end) earn a better wage.

- ChillyWaters