Deefstes
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I know, most people have pointed out that I'm judging the agency for the actions of a few individuals. I expected that you'd say that, I even said so in my original post.Seems odd to blame the agency, for individuals who fail to maintain/follow/understand that agencies standards and practices.
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It seems to me that the OP is criticising PADI for the actions of individuals who are not following PADI's guidelines. There's no logic to that...
In a way I knew I was wrong on that score before I even made my post. But you'd have to agree, it is a natural way of thinking, however wrong it might be. How many people have written off Christianity due to the actions of Christians? But let's not open that can of worms. What I'm saying is, I know these guys don't embody PADI and it's policies, they're just three individuals who have their own particular way of doing things which rubs me the wrong way. Because they (or at least two of them) claimed that there was something wrong with the agency that trained me, I drew the conclusion that there is something wrong with the agency that they purportedly represent - not as illogical as you say.
And to be clear, when I say I've written off PADI, I'm not saying that I will never dive with anyone who has any affiliation with PADI again. All I'm saying is, I love to learn more about SCUBA and get other people's opinions on diving issues (like safety stops), but the next time a PADI diver, DM or instructor makes any claims on good or bad practices, I'll take it with a bit of salt, remembering these fruitcakes who also claimed to speak for PADI.
Of course not. I like that! In fact, it pretty much sums up how I feel about safety stops and how I have been trained. I'm not 100% sure I understand the part "They are a mandatory part of dive planning for dives below 30m and certain repetitive dives" as I consider safety stops a mandatory part of dive planning for ANY dive. In other words, I never plan to do a dive that will not incorporate a safety stop but then again, I will leave room for contingencies and I will not do a safety stop when I deem it to remove a level of safety from my dive (such as in the scenario of you being swept into the open sea by a strong current when you are separated from your buddy and the group).The PADI position on safety stops is very clear. They are recommended on every dive. They are a mandatory part of dive planning for dives below 30m and certain repetitive dives. However, they are still only a safety measure - and would be disregarded if an emergency meant that getting to the surface quickly was critical.
Can you criticise PADI for that?
But I'm glad you posted the above because now I know what PADI says about safety stops and it is a far cry from "always do your safety stops, no matter what".
OK, that's a very good point and I agree, the operator is not under any obligation to justify every one of their operating procedures to every customer who tries to be a smart-arse.Dive operation has standard operating procedures applicable to the local environment and based on a long history of risk assessments. Dive operations expect their customers to adhere to those procedures.
I can appreciate that many dive operators/pros would not feel that 'debating' or 'discussing' was a required part of their customer service provision.
It is nice if dive staff have the time/energy to validate every one of their operating procedures with customers, but it is also understandable that they sometimes won't.
And as seaducer has alluded to, I might well have come across as being a smart-arse, although it certainly wasn't my intention.
But I'd like to say two things in response to your last comment;
First of all, I don't care what the operator's standard procedure is, I will dive the way I have been trained and which I believe is safe. Of course I will conform to their procedures as regards kitting up on the boat, entering the water, following the DM and the discussed dive plan, but I WILL NOT do a safety stop when I find myself separated from my buddy and the group and I'm in a raging current taking me who knows where, regardless of what the operator's standard procedure might be and especially not if they can't provide a good reason for why doing so would be a good idea.
Secondly, while the operator is under no obligation to justify their procedures it wouldn't hurt to discuss diving practices with those who are interested. Earlier in the day this instructor and I were discussing how high the cylinder should be mounted in the BC. He reckoned mine was mounted too high and I explained to him that it helps me to sort out my feet-heavy trim. He didn't seem to take any issue with me having a differing opinion there. I was about to move the cylinder down when he said, "no, if you're feet-heavy, leave it like that and see how it works. You can adjust it after the dive if you agree that it is too high". Sure enough, I did adjust it slightly after the first dive when I realised the rented BCD had a different fit than mine.
I don't understand why discussing safety stops couldn't be conducted in a similar way. We're two divers on a boat with nothing else to do than chat while we wait for the boat to get to the dive site. Would it really hurt to offer some insights on why you believe so firmly in "always do your safety stop, no matter what"?