Thoughts on the future of Sharm

[Red Sea Shadow]

Oh, c´mon now, don´t do that!
The invasion of Iraq was a barbaric, unjustifyable act by a mad man in the White House, based on lies, who needed to rally his people behind a common enemy because of terrible approval rates at home. Cheney and his cohorts (Wolfowitz and others) had monetary gains to expect (Haliburton) and were (are) dreaming of easier access to oil. What does this have to do with what we discussed: the influence of religion on the stability and developement of nations and on acts of individuals.
That was a rather cheap move to distract...

And why don't you tell us why Blair supported those guys? Moreover, who will compensate the people of Iraq? And how? Where do the western systems stand and what are they based on? For instance, will we ever see those people prosecuted? I know I'm dreaming but without complete justice and utmost respect to all others (religions, cultural values, rights that have been literally stolen, etc...), expect nothing but suicide bombers.

For every action there's a reaction, equal in magnitude and opposite in direction.

 

[Crowley]

Folks - I didn't want this to turn into a religious debate - there's plenty of non-dive forums to sling the mud between the various different world religions who all basically believe the same thing just with slightly different names attached, and for a really good religious giggle, try reading Leviticus, old testament stuff....

Certain factions within the Muslim Brotherhood would like to see Sharia Law imposed on Egypt - in which case, tourism as we know it will end. This is not necessarily the over-riding aim of the party, who as it stands at the moment, probably wouldn't be elected anyway - Egypt is a very tolerant country and also has a large Coptic (Christian) population. If the Brotherhood were to get elected - well, first of all we need some elections.

What I want to get a perspective on is what people are thinking at the moment - yes, some form of non-secular state is a possibility, but my main concern is we're not even going to get that far. What are foreign staff here thinking beyond the religious debate - what do tourists see from the perspective of their home countries. What is being reported on national news channels, what happens when you go to the travel agency and ask them about Sharm?

Cheers

C.

 

[macrobubble]

Sorry, Crowley, for kidnapping your thread.
But the fear of a non-secular state and the influence of certain religious groups in the future is exactely what people in Europe are mainly concerned about. They fear a hostile environment and as long as those fears are imminent they will stop coming.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Certain factions within the Muslim Brotherhood would like to see Sharia Law imposed on Egypt - in which case, tourism as we know it will end. This is not necessarily the over-riding aim of the party, who as it stands at the moment, probably wouldn't be elected anyway - Egypt is a very tolerant country and also has a large Coptic (Christian) population. If the Brotherhood were to get elected - well, first of all we need some elections.

The election process (not the election itself) is due to start on September 18th. Please take into consideration that tons of preparations have to be done, including shifting from the former election card "system" to a national ID system. Moreover, a new Parliament Election Law has to be agreed upon first, otherwise the former regime will be re-produced.

Finally, this elections is not the last step. Still we have to go through the presidential elections, which are due approximately 2 months after the parliament's.

 

[mtabor]

I'm a Canadian living in France. Ive been to Egypt twice this year. My wife and I spent thousands between the 2 trips. We really enjoyed ourselves so much I booked a month in September.

Now, France is a pretty big country with what 60 plus million? When I speak to most people here, they tell me I'm mad for going there and they never will. The bulk of tourists I see are Russians, Germans, some English and Scandinavians. Of course this little ole Canadian.

If this ever went Sharia we are done with the country and of course our money goes elsewhere. The second I feel uncomfortable there, we are done and will fly home the next day. I hate to see this happen? we really love Egypt and its people. This month long trip is booked large in part because of the Egyptians we have met.

 

[Red Sea Leonfish]

What I want to get a perspective on is what people are thinking at the moment... what do tourists see from the perspective of their home countries. What is being reported on national news channels, what happens when you go to the travel agency and ask them about Sharm?

See my previous post. To which I would add that the BBC has ongoing coverage of the protests in Cairo but is generally pretty good about making it clear that these are 'localised'. Nevertheless, very few travel agencies are actively promoting Egypt other than as 'last minute' deals (presumably because demand is so low that they have a lot of unsold holidays).

Egypt has typicall benefited from what the UK holiday industry calls "Winter Sun" breaks advertised by way of glossy booklets printed up in August/September on the basis of the packages that the big tour operators will be running October - February. I'd be very surpisred if many UK tour operators will be comitting to significant packages of Egyptian holidays between now and whenever the elections are actually held.

In many ways, it would be better for all concerned if the elections were held asap. At least that way everyone (divers, dive guides, tour operators and holiday makers - oh yes and the Egyptians stuck in the middle of all this) would know where they stand.

 

[String]

A lot of signs are far from promising.

Here its similar to Sharm, smaller centres are struggling. Even now in the european school holiday period numbers are massively down. Some centres are struggling to find reliable or decent diving staff (thanks in part to the dahab dive taliban who have been remarkably silent of late...).

The main issue we're seeing here is the complete lack of law and order still. More and more robberies are being reported especially on foreigners houses. I actually heard of the first bag snatching incident on a tourist since ive been here this week. Corruption is still rife only now the army are getting in on the act as well as the police. A popular one now is telling people "its dangerous" and selling them "safe" transport or taxis for a ludicrous price. A lot of the land owners are getting greedy and brain dead in equal measure. I now know of several centres and hotels that despite having a massive down turn in business this year have had their rent double or even more as the land owner wants to make even more money. The rates cannot be afforded so several centres are considering closing or moving premises. Hotels as well are suffering from this idiocy.

The reef is getting a severe kicking. Illegal fishing is widespread and completely out of control. You'll easily see 20-30 people fishing behind the restaurants in town (commercially. Not bedouin) on a daily basis, even more at the lagoon. The bedouin themselves are really going to town with their crowbars and other tools now smashing off lumps of coral in search of those clams and octopus. Customers are getting hooked and/or caught on line at lighthouse and the other reefs regularly now theres so much of it there.
The out of control and unregulated building is everywhere now. Things are shooting up all over the place with no real thought, planning (or permission). Hotels are being build around the entrances to Abu Talha, Helal, moray gardens, rick's reef and others meaning those dive sites will eventually have restricted or no
shore access (and most of the building rubble is being dumped into the sea on a daily basis). At a time when visitor numbers are massively down do we really NEED another 10-15 hotels! Surely the effort is betting spent fixing the antiquated and utterly inadequate sewage and other systems first?

The political troubles are somewhat detached from the tourist areas. As a normal "tourist" you're unlikely to come across anything different or new at all in the resorts most of the time. However the TV news is reporting the facts to europe and the world from the country has a whole. That does involve increasing unrest in Cairo (tanks in Tahrir again today, bit pro islamist demo a few days ago), the problems in El Arish, Alex and elsewhere which are happening more and more regularly. North Sinai also has some severe issues. People are seeing that and being understandably put off despite it being unlikely to affect them in the tourist resorts.
However there are some things that are happening and not helping - the army charging through town and taking over sea front buildings while the owners and lease holders fight violently outside. Big shouting matches and army charges at the areas the taxis congregate and so on. It wont exactly encourage people its a safe place and make them want to come back! Neither will the increasingly more aggressive shop/tourist tat owners or taxi drivers who really have no idea what people skills actually are!

There is not a lot of work here for people now and that includes both foreigners AND egyptians. Quite a few of my egyptian friends have left to go back to Cairo, Alex or the main cities in the search of work now and a lot are looking for and attempting to get visas to get out.

The elections have been delayed which might not be a bad thing but they've refused to allow independent international observers which is not a good thing when the most important thing the world needs to see are free,transparent and fair elections!
The political party of the MB has stated its goal is Sharia law. IF that happens then forget tourism. Nobody is going to come to a country where they have to cover up, have no alcohol and all the other assortments there. At the moment people are happy in their all inclusive hotels where they can eat, drink and dress how they please and free to move around.

Its a very delicate time and nobody really knows how its going to end up. For a good positive world image to get people back then transparent, fair and demonstrably fair elections MUST happen. If that fails then forget it, people wont come.

 

[Crowley]

The election process (not the election itself) is due to start on September 18th. Please take into consideration that tons of preparations have to be done, including shifting from the former election card "system" to a national ID system. Moreover, a new Parliament Election Law has to be agreed upon first, otherwise the former regime will be re-produced.

Finally, this elections is not the last step. Still we have to go through the presidential elections, which are due approximately 2 months after the parliament's.

Hi Asser - I've been following developments on Ahram online - which I have to say I enjoy reading - and am aware that the special committee will begin work on the 18th, and also what a massive undertaking the whole process might be. My worry is that many people will not see it this way, and continue to demand that everything happens *now*


macrobubble - no worries mate, debate about religion fires me up no end! and String - thanks for filling us in on the situation in Dahab. There have been a few extra burglaries in Sharm, and one case of handbag snatching that I am aware of, but obviously there are more people here and Sharm is much more heavily policed, if that's the word you want to use. I don't think tourists would have any problems, apart from the fact that prices are on the up again (local logic: Hmm no money, put prices up, make more money). It's starting to pay back in a way because the property owners who are keeping their rents low are doing a roaring trade - those that put the rents back up, or in some cases actually increased them... well, now they are earning no money at all - just like the owner of the apartment I have just vacated. All you need to do is walk down the road and find something just as nice for half the price.

Nevertheless, very few travel agencies are actively promoting Egypt other than as 'last minute' deals (presumably because demand is so low that they have a lot of unsold holidays).

Leonfish - This is the sort of thing that we don't get to see out here and it's very interesting to hear. From the travel agencies' perspective it makes perfect business sense - don't allocate planes to Sharm until we know what's going to happen there. At the moment flights from Europe are around 60% of last year's traffic and big markets such as the Russians and Italians - well they really never came back in the numbers we were used to seeing here. This was supposed to be "60% until September" and then normal business would resume but it makes no sense to over-promote winter bookings if there is such uncertainty in the market.

mtabor - I get that sentiment from a lot of our customers - they told their friends and families that they were going to Egypt and they were told in return that they must be crazy! Me - I still don't see it that way - I'd still rather wander around the backstreets of Cairo that the backside of London and I don't think I'd ever feel threatened - in fact I think I'm more likely to be laughed at (in a nice way) than robbed!

Waiting to see - thanks for the input all.

Cheers

C.

 

[Doubler]

Monday's turmoil in Tahrir followed a massive Friday demonstration on the same square by hundreds of thousands of Islamists, who called for transforming Egypt into an Islamic state—and railed against the liberal and secular youths who had helped motivate millions to rise up against Mr. Mubarak.

Excerpt from Wall Street Journal today, the "transforming Egypt into an Islamic state" is what is keeping tourists away and what will kill the industry.

 

[macrobubble]

I think
that´s
the artikel you are referring to.