DIR- GUE Thoughts on Halcyon Symbios as an entry point into CCR diving vs a specialized tool?

[steinbil]

My take: it does not fit the GUE standard of D12's as far as I can see (too much clutter on the chest with a already relativly complex config with D12 and stages). Even the JJ is configured in a way that it resembles a doubles config which seems to me seems to be the GUE gold standard. So I guess it will be a specialized add on for GUE sidemount or it won't fit in the GUE curriculum at all.

Clutter on the chest seems to be a very clear disadvantage, and is mentioned also in the Quest article:
"...chestmounted rebreathers are not without their challenges. They can obstruct access to other equipment, such as drysuit inflators or backup lights..."

It's unclear to me how big this disadvantage is, but it would seem to be progressively worse the more equipment you bring in terms of stages, DPVs etc. Which again might reinforce the idea I've heard repeated many times that CM CCRs are not ideal for deep ocean dives, and that the JJ is. However, I don't know how much of a problem it would be on shallower tech dives with less equipment - but then again, maybe those dives are better suited to OC...?

It seems GUE does indeed see its place in the GUE equipment lineup, and the article mentions the integration with GUEs standardized equipment:

"GUEs emphasis on standardization and redundancy is well-served by [CM CCRs]. [They] can be seamlessly integrated into GUE-compliant configurations, ensuring compatibility with team diving protocols and providing reliable backup options."

 

[jborg]

I'm a bit worried by the apparent or real hypocrisy involved in choosing this rebreather as the one alternative to the JJ. The rebreather situation was unusual among agencies but had a real and understandable underpinning in that it was focused on a standardised rebreather that fit in the general GUE context.

Now, apparently, the rationale of that choice goes out of the window -- you can learn the GUE JJ with all the reasons for that, or you can train on this other chestmount wireless rebreather that has nothing in common with the existing concept and apparently nothing to speak for it in a GUE context other than being made by Halcyon. Why just those two? Why not all the other chestmount rebreathers that don't happen to have an H on them? GUE had an undeserved and incorrect reputation for requiring specific regulator brands and whatnot when that was never the case. The same can't be said for rebreathers, apparently.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

Maybe @johnkendall could weigh in on this?

 

[grantmac]

I personally think it's a response to GUE losing market share as the opinions regarding "recreational" CCR use have changed.

 

[PfcAJ]

Once upon a time, GUE’s teaching and methods were born out of real exploration. Super challenging stuff. The things being taught were learned at extreme costs, be it financial (your expedition is ruined) or worse.

Robustness of equipment and technique was *it*. The courses that made GUE great were demanding, pragmatic, accurate; and no nonsense.

Current day sees almost none of that. GUE is mirroring PADI classes (ow, advanced, rescue, this that and the other)… Tthe exact opposite of what made GUE great to begin with. the rebreathers are not reliable (go look at the VUE CCR fb page. It’s pretty much a “my rebreather broke pls help” resource), nor are they proven (the Symbios is brand new). The given choices pigeonhole divers into using bailout volumes that are downright inappropriate. Back when Diepolder was open (FDW), there were instances of lp50s being used for bailout with the JJ in a 300ft+ deep cave because the damn thing is too wide to put larger diameter tanks on it. Not smart.

The more I see this stuff go down and the more I read people talk about what they were taught (or not taught) on their classes, the more I see myself distanced from GUE. It’s still the best game in town, but the score is narrowing.