Thoughts on Deep and Wreck Diving

[wreckedinri]

. . . I personally think that the solo divers are nuts, (irresponsible, suicidal, egotistical, adolescent, etc. - take your pick) . . .

I'm just trying to decide which best describes me when I have to tie into a wreck or go and toss the hook. Am I really suicidal when I'm shooting video and do not have the luxury of having an assitant?

The point is; there are so many different scenarios and circumstances in which a variety of diving styles and methods can, and in some cases, must be employed that making generalizations is a fool's errand.

Learn a variety of techniques and practices, examine the situation, decide on the safest methodology, plan, and execute.

Jusy my irresponsible and adolescent opinion.

Capt. Dennis St Germain

 

[EastEndDiver]

I'm just trying to decide which best describes me when I have to tie into a wreck or go and toss the hook. Am I really suicidal when I'm shooting video and do not have the luxury of having an assitant?

The point is; there are so many different scenarios and circumstances in which a variety of diving styles and methods can, and in some cases, must be employed that making generalizations is a fool's errand.

Learn a variety of techniques and practices, examine the situation, decide on the safest methodology, plan, and execute.

Jusy my irresponsible and adolescent opinion.

Capt. Dennis St Germain

Amen.Thank you from another "old School" diver .Seems that these days you have to choose a "discipline" and be labeled before you are a "real" diver.Captain you hit the nail on the head.There is a time and place for many different styles and methods of diving.

 

[LavaSurfer]

DA Aquamaster

Thanks for the post; this is what I was looking for, an opinion that in some way supported thinking rational and not emotional thinking.



This board is full of Passionate people talking about what they believe to be the truth.

As in any situation, there is Black, White, and Gray and the best solutions always exist in the gray somewhere. It’s a basic law of marketing that to move a group towards your view you have to be an evangelist or extremist and in doing so you inch the masses toward your way of thinking. This isn’t bad but sometimes the radicals and evangelists get to be a bit annoying and appear that they are self righteous. I believe they are just passionate.

There have been some really great opinions here.

Learn a variety of techniques and practices, examine the situation, decide on the safest methodology, plan, and execute.

Come on, this makes too much sense :lol:
Thanks for that, its a great truth!


Earlier it was assumed by someone that I believed the NE greats did not plan thier dives, rest assured, this is far from the truth. I know they plan and it probably comes across in their writings as nonchalant when in fact their planning has probably become routine to them. I view it like my knowledge about data and data warehouses, to me it’s no big deal and the things I know are common knowledge but to someone who has no clue about what I do it comes across as if I take risks with their data when in fact I am applying my knowledge without them seeing it. Probably a bad example but it works.

 

[TheRedHead]

I think we're very fortunate to be learning about tech diving in a period when there are so many role models to learn from and emulate and it doesn't have to be a them against us. I enjoy reading books about the NE wreck diver's bodacious expeditions and also admire the work of the WKPP in exploring deep caves. My first instructor was a wreck diver trained by Billy Deans and had a different perspective than my last instructor who was a cave diver and practiced DIR techniques, even though he taught through IANTD. I think there is more and more a synthesis going on in styles. Wreck divers such as Bernie Chowdhury are applying cave diving techniques to wrecks. It doesn't have to a polarized community.

 

[Thalassamania]

Sorry, that was just a rhetorical flourish to set a counterpoint to the real issue: solo divers are not stupid and there may be something there to be learned even by folks as set in their ways as I am. It was not meant to describe anyone except perhaps Bret<G>, and he can take it.

 

[Kevrumbo]

The whole notion of "self-reliance" to me IMO applies to either Solo Diving or the worst case scenario of being separated from your Buddy Team.

Properly Trained Team Members aren't necessarily dependent on each other, rather they complement one another (and certainly don't have teammates who "didi-mao" on you when the chips are down).

You should be able to troubleshoot problems yourself and communicate it to your buddy if need be. You should be able to anticipate and help out if needed to minimize task loading (i.g. shooting an SMB; Tie-offs and Laying Penetration Line; Captaining the Deco Stops etc.) You should be able to diagnose & rescue yourself and/or your buddy (i.g. recognizing Ox-Tox vs. Narcosis vs. CO2 Blackout). These are all examples of the Unified Team Concept: all members proficient in essential fundamental skills, knowing the dive plan & contingencies, but also complementing & helping each other out as well. . .

 

[Gilldiver]

As I qualify as one of the old fossils, I would like to ask you all to put yourself into some of these “old time” NE wreck divers.

Who are you? You most likely started back in the early to mid 80’s if not earlier when the largest tank set you could get was a set of 80’s and many were still diving twin 72’s. There was nothing called NITROX and He mixes were something that the Navy did. If you stayed diving for 3 or more years you started to know the guys, and a few girls, on the main boats. You knew the Eagles Nest, Wahoo, Deep Adventure, Seeker, etc.

After 5 to 7 years you started to see that there was a core group that kept diving year after year and maybe you started to be part of that group. You also saw many, many divers that would dive for 2 or 3 years and never again. You trained for years to do the Doria because the only way to do her was on air and you had to have your procedures down cold so you could do it narcked.

Around 1990 people started talking about NITROX and the dive industry was all against it because they said it would kill people. Some also started talking about He mixes, but you kept it to yourself because if the industry was against Nitrox, mix was way over the edge. Then Billy Deans started doing his stuff and the world started to change. By 1995 we all were doing mix, but there was no cert system for it, so it was all home brew. There were no mix tables or computers so we ran 21/25 with boat supplied O2 and ran air tables. If you had connections you got hold of Doc. Hamilton's tables You notice that the core from 1985 was still together.

Around 1998 the internet and George I came along and some others started talking about DIR. Dir is a great system for what it was doing – crazy deep and long cave dives. But the old core took what they thought was good from it (mix, some equipment, tables) and ignored the rest.

Now it is 2006 and you see the core is still doing it. We trust each other because we know we all can get out of the crap when it happends. Been there, done that. We also see a lot of young turks who tell us we do everything wrong. But we are still here and doing it, will you be here in 3 to 5 years?

As for solo dives, we say "every dive is a solo dive," and "if you can't save yourself you can't save me." We don't have DIR teams but you can put most of us together quickly with a mission or goal and we will jell and the job will get done.

Some of you may understand what I am saying. Some of you will not. But I am sure that I'll be diving wrecks when I am 50. I am sure most of you will not.

A final word - you keep diving because it becomes a tool to do something, be that photo, wreck exploration, marine history, biology, etc. No one stays in diving just for the diving, they move on to hang gliding, rock climbing, shy diving, or what ever. Some start to golf.

What is it that you use diivng for?

Pete J

 

[EastEndDiver]

Gilldiver possibly our paths have crossed in the old days......dove on some of those boats and also a lot of western long island sound.I am probably older than you seeing that you said you will still be diving wrecks at 50.I am 55 and still diving.Amazing that I haven't done "DIR" or "TECH" and I am still diving and enjoying it.

 

[wedivebc]

As I qualify as one of the old fossils, I would like to ask you all to put yourself into some of these “old time” NE wreck divers.

Nice post Gilldiver. Although I am not part of the "Old Guard" I was trained by one and certainly believe we are where we are in diving because of you guys.

 

[Gilldiver]

Nice post Gilldiver. Although I am not part of the "Old Guard" I was trained by one and certainly believe we are where we are in diving because of you guys.

We all stand on someone else. It is the way it is done. Nothing is realy new. Mix was used in the Navy since the 30's, most of todays equipment can find some trail back at least 30-50 years.

The one question I ask the new divers is "what do you want to do?" From the answer I can usualy tell if they will be around long. Lets face it, diving has a wash out of 95%+ within 3 years.

For those who seem to be in it for the long haul, go diving as much as you can. Don't get wraped up in doing the dive. I shake my head at some of the new "Tech" guys who say they are going to do 45 min on the U-853 but never go inside. What are you going to do for 45 min on the deck?

When they get back on the boat they don't know what they saw as they have never done the research on the wreck. All they did was circles around the deck. I don't expect they will be around for the long haul.

Pete