Thoughts on Air Integrated (hoseless) computers

[DCBC]

It's a cool idea and reminds me of when I started diving. We didn't have any hoses back then either; no gauges at all. That's what a buddy and a "J" Valve are for. LOL

 

[jd950]

T

I do not understand how anybody can say that knowing what COULD happen and having a plan for that possible event could possibly be overblown.
But a PREPARED diver is always a better diver.

I would never say that, and I didn't mean to attack or criticize you, although my post probably had a more antagonistic tone than I intended. I simply meant that for some divers, anything they don't like is a "failure point" and that concept is often used as a way of dismissing something some divers don't like or trust for themselves.

Just about everything is a failure point, including the diver himself, but the concept is often used as a handy way to dismiss anything new, different or that doesn't fit soomebody's concept of Righteous Diving. I don't accept one of the basic core principles of a subset of divers that low tech = reliability and high tech= death. I also think that some principles that may be apply to safely dive caves and wrecks are completely over the top when following a DM along a Cozumel reef, and a lot more divers do the latter than the former.

Of course divers should be prepared for reasonable risks and have a plan for what to do. I also understand that anything that needs to be protected from water and that uses batteries is at greater risk when diving. Nevertheless, my hoseless air integrated computer has so far been more reliable than my spg and my split fins haven't killed me yet or caused the sea to turn into a vast wasteland of silt.

Whether using an SPG or a computer, I realize that I could find myself unexpectedly unable to know how much gas I have left during a dive, and if that happens, then I get out of the water.

The interesting thing to me is that as far as I can tell, although a lot of divers with hoseless computers also use a backup SPG, most divers using SPGs or AI computers with a hose carry no backup. So who then is the better prepared diver?

 

[gcbryan]

Diving is a relatively safe sport. People do die but people die anytime they are around water. It's rarely because of equipment failure, even when equipment fails.

Most choices in diving are personal choices.

Failure points, lack of redundancy, most of that is just personal preference.

I have two computers and yet if both of them failed I'd still continue the dive in most cases (go figure!). I have a pony bottle for redundant air. I don't have a redundant SPG (other than for the pony bottle) but if I had wireless AI I wouldn't concern myself with that either.

It's also true that most people who have AI like them and most people who don't haven't tried them however that goes with most anything. If you think you like the idea of AI enough to go out and spend the money then you already know you will more than likely like it. The reverse is also true.

I have no interest in AI. I'm not going to spend $1,000 so that I can post that yes I tried it and didn't like it.

My main reason, other than the cost, is that I just don't want that info on my computer screen. I wish the NDL info on my computer was smaller and over to one side as well.

If my computer breaks, floods, or whatever I like the idea of not having to spend so much to replace it (which goes for most other things in diving). I don't use the alarms on the computer I do have nor do I look at the green, yellow, red little bars over on one side of my computer. So I simply do not want more stuff being displayed.

Personal choice.

 

[BigHarryDiver]

I have suunto vyper air. Love it. Display is great and very easy to use. Info is presented in a logical and easy to understand Way. As with any computer, you MUST read and understand the manual. It is not just hook up and go. Yes, suunto must be synced before every dive, but it only takes a second and ensures that you do not exchange data with anyone else. That is the reason for sync before every dive. Once synched, it works perfectly. Just consider it a part of your predive check.

I've been diving the Suunto Vytec hoseless for about 2 1/2 years. IMO, the best way to prevent it from loosing sync is to NOT put it on your arm UNTIL you are ready to enter the water. If you put it on and walk more than about 10 feet or so away it will probably loose sync. No big deal, just a word of caution. I normally hook mine to my 1st stage and leave it there until ready to hit the water. Just remember to take it off the reg and put it on your arm!

 

[charlesml3]

I do so hope you are not serious here. I am not saying one should or should not dive a hoseless AI computer but to even consider saying that a hose is an equal failure point to the wireless function? Really?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Please provide access to data which refutes this claim. Upon review of said data, I will happily retract the statement.

-Charles

 

[jd950]

I am sure no one maintains such data. It is just going to be personal opinion "backed up" by anecdotal evidence ("I remember this one time....")

Even if you had the data, unless you can account for user error, maintenance, equipment age, etc., such data would be next to meaningless.

I have no doubt that if I rarely change the battery in a transmitter and ignore low battery warnings, it will eventually fail. If I never inspect or replace the O ring on a transmitter or high pressure hose, it will probably fail. If I smash hoses between tanks and concrete, leave them in the sun a lot, don't rinse salt water off of them, etc., they will eventually fail. If you have a Suunto computer and don't link it up right or move away from the tank after linking it, I gather it will lose its link. If I smash my transmitter between concrete and an air cylinder before a dive, it may well fail.

There is not central registry for reporting failures of scuba gear. You just have to go with what you believe.

 

[fppf]

I don't understand where peoples distrust in electronics come from.
If you really don't trust electronics, don't drive your car, don't fly, don't trust your furnace, the GPS which everyone uses with no maps in the glove box.....

Even commercial planes are now fly by wire, 100% dependent on electronics.

 

[TravisD]

In my case, it was a cost-benefit decision. I could get a a basic nitrox computer and analog gauge for half of what an equivalent AI computer would have been at that time. Multiplied by two since this was purchasing gear for my wife and I. It came down, partially, to "will this get me in the water more or not?".

Besides, it's two less batteries to worry about...

 

[fnfalman]

As ScubaSteve points out hoseless AI Computers are a potential failure point. But, if you're willing to take the risk, go for it. Anecdotal evidence shows that for rec diving the risk is acceptable.

The DIR tech community shuns all computers (except their brain), and they're very particular about which guages they use. Monitoring the 5th D list server it looks like lower quality guages fail occasionaly in extreme environments.

Everything that you take underwater has a potential failure point.

If the DIR community were to shun all computers then why are the Liquivision, the Cochran, the Nitek available? BTW. this is a rhetorical question. The hard core tech people plan their dives and take their slates with them as an insurance to supplement their computers.

Do you know what kind of computer/controller the CCR people use and to what depth? If electronics were that fragile then why are these people who dive to 400+ft using them?

 

[Doc Harry]

AI are E&U

Air-integrated computers are expensive & unnecessary.

One glance at your $70 SPG and 2 seconds of math in your head can give you the same information as a $1,000 AI system.

Seems like a "no brainer" to me.