The Terri Schiavo Case

[pipedope]

First off, this case is newsworth only because the parents are rich enough and politically connected enough to keep it in the news, courts and now in the legislatures. People in similar conditions are taken off artificial support every day.

Both of the brothers Bush have signed deat orders so their argument that every life is precious and you should always error on the side of life is not only meaningless but is a deliberate LIE!

Now, the moral and religious angle.
I am a recovering Catholic, a product of a Catholic grade school education where we were actually taught to think.

The teachings of the Church are seriously at odds with the teachings of Christ and are also logically flawed.

If it is interfering with Gods will to let someone die, or to kill them then it MUST also be against Gods will to artifically keep someone alive.

You can't have it both ways. Have the guts to make you choice and stick with it.

It is typical of some people in that if they don't like the way the court rules they keep going back and also changing the rules untill they get what they want. But if someone on the other side trys the same thing they say, "It is over and done, get over it."

Hey, didn't G.W. Bush sign a law in TX that makes it possible to stop life support of a 6 month old child, OVER THE OBJECTIONS OF HIS PARRENTS. Oh, I guess that was OK because the COST of the care required was considered in the decision.

I think that the people making false claims against Michael should be sued for Slander and Libel. I also think that they should not be able to talk about Terri and what SHE wants when they HAVE NEVER MET HER, or even seen her in person.

It is funny, the same congress that makes it impossible for you to sue your HMO is letting the Shindlers jump the case over to the federal courts who shouldn't be involved AT ALL.

If you have never been a caregiver for a disabled person then you don't know what it is like and you are in no position to judge Michael. So please just;
"SHUT THE **** UP ALREADY!"

 

[H2Andy]

I don't have a guardian right now but if I need one who appoints
them? The judges? I'm doomed. I think we need another choice.

well, your spouse would be your legal guardian in most jurisdictions. if you are not
married, it'll be your closest living relative (generally in this order: adult children, parents, siblings, grandparents, nieces/nephews, cousins)

this will be determined rather quickly, as the doctors will need permission from the
legal guardian for on-going treatment options.

Michael is Terri's guardian. He and his doctors need the freedom to decide what
is best for her without the whole world looking over their shoulders. this stuff
is hard enough as it is.

also, you say you need "another choice." what would that be?

 

[AevnsGrandpa]

Well, after reading through all 9 pages of this thread, I do say it has been kept down to a dull roar well. I will try not to invoke any over the top responses.

Mike F. stole some of my thunder and I would say I am in agreement with 99% of what he said.

I currently have a real life situation where this debate is close to my heart. Here is the background.

My son-in-law in August of last year was in a single car accident where he was thrown from the car, landed almost vertically on his head and broke 4 vertebra and fractured his skull. He was taken with in minutes to the ER of a large hospital known for their emergency care. His initial prognosis was that he would not live through the night. The accident happened at around 9:00 pm or so. He made it through the night.

He was in a coma for a total of 9 days. Totally non-responsive, nothing. On full life support. The doctors were trying to talk my 22 years old daughter into pulling the plug, as he would not recover and if he did he would be a quad and probably a vegetable. She was horrified, it had not been even 2 weeks and they had given up hope for him.

Slowly over the months things have gotten better, the respirator is out, the nose tube into his lungs for suctioning is out, the halo that he had on for 3 months is off and now the neck brace is gone. He has regained some movement in ALL his limbs. Note that he did come out of the coma after 9 days and was aware of the people around him and knew them, we could tell by the way he looked at us. He also cries when he see his 18 month old son. He has from the start had a feeding tube into his stomach, although he is now having speech therapy which includes getting his to start eating, which he is, he still doesn’t have coordinated movement of his arms and hands to do it himself.

Why all this? First, after seeing my daughter go through this and where he is today, NEVER give up hope, but still have common sense. Secondly, who other than my daughter and the counsel of her parents and his parents, have any right to step in and question her decisions concerning her husband’s life. When the doctors were pushing for ending his life and she said no, I’m glad someone didn’t go to the courts and try to over rule her legal right as the wife to make decisions for his healthcare. (She did get POA to do this).

Now on the subject of the feeding tube. IMHO a feeding tube is NOT life support, at least not in the vein that I think most people and healthcare folks think. That would be the things that if you did not have then you would die right then and there. Does my son-in-law need a feeding tube, YES, do I think that it should be the determining factor of his quality of life, NO! I am not informed past what I see on the news as far as Terri’s ability to interact with those around her, but from the video clips I have seen, she can. Was it what she would have wanted for herself, NO. IF my son-in-law doesn’t fully recover from this accident and is handicapped in some way is that any reason for other’s to make the decision that his quality of life is not worth living, NOO.

Now if there was some document that Terri had written prior to all of this saying if anything like this happened and she would not want to be kept alive by any means, then I would say the husband would have something to stand on, but as been said, he to me is not credible.

I know this is long, but it hits home to me NOW. Would we as the USA or the world missed the contributions of Stephen Hawkins (sp?) if someone would have decided his life not worth the living?

Thanks for reading this LOOONG post!

Jeff

 

[H2Andy]

AvensGranpa, i am sorry for your son-in-law. i am glad that he is improving.

Terri hasn't improved in 15 years. let's let her husband and her doctors decide
for her; she can't make that decision.

Hawkins has always had a functioning brain (and how!). He is able to make his
own determinations.

the issue is, when someone can't decide for themsleves, shouldn't we let their
guardians and doctors agree without everybody and their mother jumping into
the fray?

is it our decision to make for them? i don't think so.

do you remember the Elian Gonzales story? it broke my heart that they sent
that boy back to Cuba, to live in a represive, totalitarian, communist country.
to me, this is tantamount to sentencing this boy to a life sentence.

but it wasn't my decision. the father decided to take him to Cuba, and it
was not up to me to make that decision.

let's let people make their own decisions, even if we don't agree with them.

 

[AevnsGrandpa]

That is part of what I was saying.

Let's let those involved deside what is to be done. Our courts and governments should have no say directly in what is to be done.

They should create laws after reviewing such happening to better aid the people involved in future situations in accomplishing what they have decisded.

Jeff

 

[pipedope]

Now if there was some document that Terri had written prior to all of this saying if anything like this happened and she would not want to be kept alive by any means, then I would say the husband would have something to stand on, but as been said, he to me is not credible.


Jeff

So who IS credible?

This has been in the courts for a LONG time. There have been multiple reviews by other courts. The COURTS seem to find Michael credible, why don't you? Do you know ANY of the people involved?

Lots of people are throwing stones at Michael when they have never net ANY of the people involved and have never had any experience even remotely similar.

We let people die EVERY DAY.
HMOs withold treatment EVERY DAY and people die.
The same congress that let this case jump to the federal courts also made it impossible to sue your HMO.

I am sorry but this whole thing is a circus for political advantage and the only one that really cares about Terri is probably Michael. He certainly cares more than ANY of the (so called) people in congress.

 

[zboss]

well, your spouse would be your legal guardian in most jurisdictions. if you are not
married, it'll be your closest living relative (generally in this order: adult children, parents, siblings, grandparents, nieces/nephews, cousins)

this will be determined rather quickly, as the doctors will need permission from the
legal guardian for on-going treatment options.

Michael is Terri's guardian. He and his doctors need the freedom to decide what
is best for her without the whole world looking over their shoulders. this stuff
is hard enough as it is.

also, you say you need "another choice." what would that be?

Interestingly, Maryland is either considering or has already passed legislature that allows non-married couples to make decisions such as this. Now - I only heard it on the news last night and - NO - i don't have all the facts but I thought I would chime in with more information.

 

[WaterDawg]

If I was in terri's situation I would hope that they would remove the tube. If my body can not sustain itself, then it is no longer a temple for my soul.

.

CM,
I totally agree w/ you, BUT did you knok that she is NOT hooked up to any machines (respirators etc.) all she is getting is food and water.

So if you body couldnt sustain itself w/ out food or water then it would no longer be a temple for your soul?? We're ALL in trouble then!!!!!

The funny thing is that if we withheld food and water from Al-queida prisoners, killers, terrorist etc there would be a HUGE uproar!!!!!

She cant communicate, but were not sure she cant think.

My opinion is: unplug the machines, but if I still live (like she has for years) and Im not a finacial drain on my fam (she is not) then let me be.

 

[outlawaggie]

Prepare a living will. Save your parents, spouse, kids etc from ever being put into the postion of those involved here.

 

[zboss]

I think that the people making false claims against Michael should be sued for Slander and Libel. I also think that they should not be able to talk about Terri and what SHE wants when they HAVE NEVER MET HER, or even seen her in person.

he is SOOO obviously in need of an exorcism - don't you see how he spins around like that? And that moonwalk thing - it's like he's floating across the stage. He's obviously possessed!