The pros and cons of rebuilding your own regulators...

[Genesis]

example one
"Tighten the yoke bolt with a 10" adjustable wrench. Tighten to 20 - 25 ft/lb"


example two
For a very critical part!!!

Use the pin spanner wrench (part #xxxxx) to tighten the diaphragm clamping ring the rest of the way down. Tighten to 25 - 30 ft/lb torque or until the edge of the diaphragm clamping ring and the body meet metal to metal.

(in bold)
This is essential to ensure that the diaphragm is securely clamped.

In example one I havent yet found a 10' adjustable that reads torque.

In the first case, you are quoted a torque spec.

If you can repeatedly hit that number with a crescent wrench, be my guest. I'm willing to bet you cannot. In that case the 10" crescent wrench is the wrong tool and you should be using a torque wrench and a socket.

In the second case you have the key word or in there, which absolves you of the torque requirement provided the metal-to-metal contact is made.

 

[Aquamaniac]

Karl, why do you care what everyone else is doing if you service your own regs?

What is the point of continuing this arguement?

It is getting rather boring..........

Dave

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...


In the first case, you are quoted a torque spec.

If you can repeatedly hit that number with a crescent wrench, be my guest. I'm willing to bet you cannot. In that case the 10" crescent wrench is the wrong tool and you should be using a torque wrench and a socket.

In the second case you have the key word or in there, which absolves you of the torque requirement provided the metal-to-metal contact is made.

In both cases I quoted the manual word for word. Case one says to use a 10'adjustable AND gives a torque spec. Wether I can hit that torque reliably or not with that tool hasn't been tested. This what I am trying to get accross. It isn't critical it's a referance. Proofe of the practicality of that statement is the fact that there has never been a failure. Well plus the fact that our methods are consistant with our training and the manual. It is no more critical than the torque specs they give for the hoses or the port plugs. The most critical spec is probably case two (the diaphragm clamp) and in that case they give an ''OR''.

Why would you presume that you know which torque specs are critical and which are references? I have made no such assumptions they told me. Since there have been no problems with the regs I service (including my own which I use for long deep cave dives) there is no problem to solve and nothing to gain by confronting the manufacturer. Everything works great as it is. It is only you who has decided that you don't like the way the industry deals with the wording in repair manuals and has decided to use it to attempt to discredit the industry and apparantly me. You should have the training to go with your copy of the manuals IMO.

 

[pchambley]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

I understand you want to work on your reg that's ok but you have no idea who it is who is irresponsible so maybe you shouldn't accuse without knowing.

I do hate to generalize, I find that consumers (me) are not responsible when making the purchase without this information being passed on to us. Consumers should refuse to buy from a manufacture that will not include this information. The LDS's should require that the information be included with each instrument they purchase from the manufactures

I do have a very good idea who is responsible for this situation and the LDS is right up there along with me, the consumer.

Phil

 

[MikeFerrara]

pchambley once bubbled...


I do hate to generalize, I find that consumers (me) are not responsible when making the purchase without this information being passed on to us. Consumers should refuse to buy from a manufacture that will not include this information. The LDS's should require that the information be included with each instrument they purchase from the manufactures

I do have a very good idea who is responsible for this situation and the LDS is right up there along with me, the consumer.

Phil

You have a point. I am already boycotting all but a small number of manufacturers for various practices. In fact I don't have enough lines to stay in business. You know what? Nobody seems to care that I boycott them. Everyone else just keeps buying the stuff and blaming me (figuratively) for everything they don't like.

I need to get out of the business before I find a reason to boycott the fish. We are already boycotting divesites, manufacturers, resorts, agencies and even certain types of students and divers. We're running out of things to boycott and protest.

 

[joens]

I am not saying that building a reg without a torque wrench is not ok .I am saying it is not ok for me. If i want my reg built with a torque wrench or use a socket instead of a crescent wrench to tighten the yoke nut.I have the right as a customer to request it .The LDS is entitled to charge more as a result . this discussion is about the pros and cons of rebuilding your own regs. a very big pro for me is that I can do it the way I feel it needs to be done .if a customer doesnt care and the manufacturer allows it a LDS can do it however they want to . I have a customer at my mechanic shop who insists on quaker state motor oil. that is not the brand i carry in my bulk oil tank .I am not going to change oil suppliers just for him, nor will I argue with him that my oil is better and he should use it .I do keep a case of Quaker State motor oil in the store room to use on his truck. it costs slightly more for me but I cover it because it doesnt matter if my oil is better than his or not as long as it wont harm his vehicle it should be done the customers way. same with a dive shop .if a customer has opinions as to how a reg should be put together it is in the interest of the shop to do it how we want . because not only will we either take our repair work elsewhere or do it ourselves we are likely to buy everything else somewhere else as well
joens

 

[MikeFerrara]

joens,
You certainly have a right to your preferences. Some, however, have been using the way torque specs are handled as proof that the LDS is incompetant and endangering their lives as a justification for doing their own work. As far as I am concerned you can do your own just because you want to. But when someone paints me in a bad light for justification there is a problem.

When someone insinuates that I am a liar because I own a dive shop there is a problem that makes me miss the old days.

 

[Genesis]

you're not a liar for owning a dive shop.

You can only be a liar when you actually do lie.

I think most on this thread can discern the difference.

 

[Dryglove]

I look at it this way.In a perfect world every bolt would be torqued to manufacturers specs.

I look at it this way.Mike is a very seasoned diver and very conscientous of his diving and his work.On top of that mike is a cave diver.If anyone is going to take precison care in servicing their equipment its gonna be a cave diver.Im sure if torquing the reg is so critical mike would be doing so as with cave diving you dont have direct access to the surface.Your basically screwed and hope your buddy takes care of you airwise.

Genesis i see you are very concerned for your gear which is why you service your own gear which i agree isnt hard.But if i remember right you are a fairly new diver.Mike has the experience that me and you will probably never have.In my job it is experience that keeps you alive not the book.We use the book as a reference but those that have "been there and done that" are the ones we listen too.

 

[TCDiver1]

Genesis once bubbled...
you're not a liar for owning a dive shop.

You can only be a liar when you actually do lie.

I think most on this thread can discern the difference.

Yes we can and i agree with lal7176 assesment. Common sense comes from experience, experience comes from actually doing. Logical action is usually born on mistakes made by others. Genesis, if you want to "blueprint" your regs, more power to you, but Mike speaks from experience, the same experiences i've had. Countless regulator rebuilds and thousands of dives later we are still diving with non-torqued regs.
There can be more than one right answer to a question

What you call "closing of the ranks", i call common sense & experience. I would have no problem sending my regs to Mike for service.

Hey Mike, do you service Odins?