The pros and cons of rebuilding your own regulators...

[MikeFerrara]

joens once bubbled...
why not use a torque wrench. what do people have against them.
you have to use a wrench or socket anyway. just use a torque wrench.
joens

For which part?
I guess I don't have anything against them. Only against people who use it as an example of dive shops not knowing what they're doing. If dive shops don't use a torque wrench it's because they don't need it.

I can't speak for other shop owners but I'm not a mechanic. I let the manufacturers (ya know the guys that design and build the thing) tell me how to service the reg and what tools to use and I do it precisely as I was tought. And then some jamoke gets on here lecturing on how critical the torque is and how endangered his life is because the clueless LDS doesn't use one.

 

[Genesis]

Not if there is a torque spec in the service documentation.

And there IS for most regulators that I've seen. I've got a bunch of them here, and those that I don't have "official" data for I have the "Bible" (Harlow's book)

I will be more than happy to challenge the regulator "teachers" just as I challenged DAN on the "don't give O2" thread - let's not forget that, in the end, they agreed with MY position, not the nonsense that people were parroting which, it appeared at the end, was a MISinterpretation of something that had been promulgated downward.

Torque specs don't get printed without a reason Mike, and I both own a torque wrench and WILL use it. Its simply not a big deal to use the correct tool for the job, especially when its MY tailfeathers on the line at 100'.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...
Not if there is a torque spec in the service documentation.

And there IS for most regulators that I've seen. I've got a bunch of them here, and those that I don't have "official" data for I have the "Bible" (Harlow's book)

I will be more than happy to challenge the regulator "teachers" just as I challenged DAN on the "don't give O2" thread - let's not forget that, in the end, they agreed with MY position, not the nonsense that people were parroting which, it appeared at the end, was a MISinterpretation of something that had been promulgated downward.

Torque specs don't get printed without a reason Mike, and I both own a torque wrench and WILL use it. Its simply not a big deal to use the correct tool for the job, especially when its MY tailfeathers on the line at 100'.

No DAN didn't agree with you. You phrased it to make it sound as they did. The other day I came accross yet another clerification written by Nord that said exactly what I said. Very plain language and written by him. No misinformation. Your always ready to challange someone but never to any end.

Hey maybe if you challange them on this they will redesign their training program then pull all our "authorizations" and the evil LDS will no longer be able to do service either. Just think of the lives that will be saved and all because of you.

The only thing that will put your tail feathers on the line at 100 ft is needing more practice at 20 ft.

 

[TCDiver1]

Genesis once bubbled...
that spec was 55-70 IN/lbs.

Okay, in-lbs it was .... my bad.

However it doesn't change the fact that a skilled, trained craftsmen could hit the range everytime. I'll admit our people usually deal in ft-lbs and are less familiar with in-lbs, but a skilled tradesmen will become familiar if necessary. The skill part would be to get a feel for say 60 in-lbs with a torque wrench and be able to repeat it over & over again without the torque wrench. I would still take your bet with our people using 55-70 in-lbs with that in mind.

How critical do you think accurate torque is in regulator repair when the manufacturer doesn't even use a torque wrench in their own repair classes? And by your own admission & mine, many people out there doing reg repairs are not qualified and or using torque wrenches. Theoretically, we should be seeing catastrophic regulator failures left and right throughout the world but to my knowledge we are not.

With that said, i think it's an easy question each person must ask themselves on repairing their own regs. Do i feel safer repairing my own regs or trusting someone else to do it for me. IMO, it is not for most divers i know.

 

[joens]

the torque issue is not the only reason I dislike most LDS repair shops let me list some of them .remember none of these may be the case at other LDS but I have seen these things
#1 unorganized a buddy took in a tank for a VIP and it got lost in the shop ,parts from 29 regs all mixed together, old parts left laying on the workbench /floor , granted I have been called an anal retentive neat freak.
#2 cheap tools I dont think most people would take their cars to the chevy dealership if the mechanics toolkit was a hammer a crescent wrench and a big brick carried around in a blastic bucket
but i have seen some of the worst collections of junk tools in scuba shops.and there is no reason for it the amount of tools you need to work on regs is minimal compared to what an automotive or equipment mechanic has to have
joens

 

[MikeFerrara]

Here are some good examples of torque specs from a reg service manual. These were taken from the step by step assembly directions.

example one
"Tighten the yoke bolt with a 10" adjustable wrench. Tighten to 20 - 25 ft/lb"


example two
For a very critical part!!!

Use the pin spanner wrench (part #xxxxx) to tighten the diaphragm clamping ring the rest of the way down. Tighten to 25 - 30 ft/lb torque or until the edge of the diaphragm clamping ring and the body meet metal to metal.

(in bold)
This is essential to ensure that the diaphragm is securely clamped.

In example one I havent yet found a 10' adjustable that reads torque.

In example two...how do you hook a torque wrench up to this manufacturers pin spanner wrench. Oh wait they add that metal to metal is also good for this the most critical part on the reg (safety wise).

They give torque specs for port plugs. I don't know about any of you folks but we change these around in the field as needed with an allen wrench.

Anyone can see that these specs are intended as a reference not something that must be measured and in some cases would take a custom tool?

Hey they have a torque spec for the second stage hose. We keep these hand tight so they can be changed under water.

Is there a certified, authorized pro out there who sees this a different way than me?

 

[joens]

you can buy from Peter Built a socket to fit on that yoke nut in standard for us made regs or metric for european regs complete with an extension to allow you to torque the nut through the threaded hole in the yoke .
joens

 

[MikeFerrara]

joens once bubbled...
you can buy from Peter Built a socket to fit on that yoke nut in standard for us made regs or metric for european regs complete with an extension to allow you to torque the nut through the threaded hole in the yoke .
joens

Why? What problem would it solve. My manual specifies a 10' adjustable. Ever hear of one comming apart? I have never had or heard of a failure. That must be why the book says to use a 10' adjustable.

How about the really important one the one where we use the pin spanner wrench? Item two the diaphragm clamp. If this comes loose you have a bullet.

Peter Built also has some pretty spiffy flow benches. We don't have one of those either.

 

[Genesis]

one of the potential "fixes" for improper maintenance is to simply replace any part that might be stressed.

Funny how that works.

As for you, Mike, why didn't YOU follow up with the ACTUAL DOCTOR at DAN that I talked to - by PHONE - if you disagreed with what he told me ON that phone call?

I posted within MINUTES of getting off the line, yet you maintain that we never had that conversation?

Sigh.

No wonder people don't trust dive shops.

You don't think its critical to follow specs? Fine with me. Don't follow them. You're not servicing MY gear and, IF someone has a problem as a result I bet your insurance is null and void since you didn't follow the procedures laid out in the specifications.

 

[redacted]

joens once bubbled...
you can buy from Peter Built a socket to fit on that yoke nut in standard for us made regs or metric for european regs complete with an extension to allow you to torque the nut through the threaded hole in the yoke .
joens

It takes a dremel tool, a couple good cutting wheels and an hour of you time. If interested, I'll have to go look for the link to the instructions and picture. I built one after an LDS marred the hell out of my chrome plated yoke nut trying to do the job with a cresent wrench. Scubapro has pretty high torque on those nuts and it's easy to slip with the adjustable wrench.