The pros and cons of rebuilding your own regulators...
- Thread starter The Chairman
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Sorry. During the repair classses they demonstrate and you do. All work is done using their tools and their regs. Never saw no stinking torque wrench.
devjr,
There is a bigger problem still - obtaining actual rebuild parts for the average guy. SP or Apeks isn't about to sell any Ya-Hoo parts to service their own regs, not only because of liability, but because they protect their dealers best interests. You buy buy a whole garage full of reg tools - but they won't do you much good w/o PARTS!
There is a bigger problem still - obtaining actual rebuild parts for the average guy. SP or Apeks isn't about to sell any Ya-Hoo parts to service their own regs, not only because of liability, but because they protect their dealers best interests. You buy buy a whole garage full of reg tools - but they won't do you much good w/o PARTS!
R
redacted
Guest
I agree that parts are the long pole in the tent. But the tools alone can be very useful. My Mk20/G500 will be 4 years old in April and has yet to require any parts. Although I have managed to obtain them for when the need arises. The knowledge and tools will allow you to correct many problems just by cleaning. I've done my Mk20 twice and the G500 once. All parts looked good and I have been able to restore and maintain performance.
I admit that it is a lot easier to disassemble and clean your kit when the parts are on the self but there are alternatives. "Annual service" parts are clearly good for many more than 1 year. I cured IP creap problems twice on my Mk20 with a good cleaning. A little corrosion on the old style brass piston seemed to be the culprit. By catching it before it got out of hand, the HP seat remained servicable. And when the G500 performance deteriorated again in only 3 months after adjusting the balance chamber, A good cleaning seems to have corrected that also. A little corrosion in the old stye metal barrel and excess christolube in the balance chamber (from the factory) seems to have been the culptit there.
So parts are helpful but not critical to doing your own work. Generic high quality o-rings of appropriate material and hardness will work in most cases. Port/hose o-rings are often not included in service kits anyway. And if it gets to be more than you can handle, then reassemble and let the LDS do the service.
At $50.00 a shot just for service, I figure I've save in the neighborhood of $500.00 on our (wife/buddy &I) regs over the last 4 years. (I spent around $200.00 on tools and books.) And unlike when the LDS was doing it, mine are coming out right the first time rather than the norm of repeated trips back to the technician.
And it is nice to know that the SOB who did the work is as interested in my wellbeing as I am.
Be carefull about reusing parts. Some parts are never ever to be reused.
Be very carefull about using generic 0-rings. A reg manufacturer will use an 0-ring that is currently produced if possible. However, it can be hard to match size and derometer and some are just plain non-standard.
If a reg needs to be torn down it need the usuals replaced. Otherwise you will find yourself redoing it in short order. Well...that's ok if you do a good job every time.
Be very carefull about using generic 0-rings. A reg manufacturer will use an 0-ring that is currently produced if possible. However, it can be hard to match size and derometer and some are just plain non-standard.
If a reg needs to be torn down it need the usuals replaced. Otherwise you will find yourself redoing it in short order. Well...that's ok if you do a good job every time.
Most, if not all, must learn to be a good craftsperson in any field they are working. It is not innate. Many people don't have the necessary motorskills or desire to learn or become a good craftsperson IMO. Learning through supervised experience (apprenticeship) from others in the know, is the best way.
IMHO you don't have to be a good craftsperson to do reg. repair but it would definately help you sleep at night if you were. I agree with Genesis, through experience, that not all LDS repair personnel can be trusted but ask yourself one question. Do you trust yourself more?
A couple points for Genesis:
1. I have 30 or 40 craftspeople working for me at any given time who can torque a bolt to 55 to 70 ft-lbs EVERY time without a torque wrench. It's called being a skilled tradesman, not that unusual at all. You ought to see some of them weld by feel, it's quite amazing! I have my eye on a new set of wings, care to bet with me?
2. Before you bet you should know all these people go through a four to five year apprenticeship before they become licensed journeyman. I wouldn't let an electrician with only one years experience near my house. I'd advise you to do the same.
3. Comparing a diesel boat engine to a regulator is a major stretch in my mind. Mechanically speaking there is little to compare when discussing the skill to repair or maintain either.
4. It's apparent you like to work on your own stuff because you don't like to trust others who have proven themselves untrustworthy. That's admirable. Just try not to think about that the next time you fly commercial.
IMHO you don't have to be a good craftsperson to do reg. repair but it would definately help you sleep at night if you were. I agree with Genesis, through experience, that not all LDS repair personnel can be trusted but ask yourself one question. Do you trust yourself more?
A couple points for Genesis:
1. I have 30 or 40 craftspeople working for me at any given time who can torque a bolt to 55 to 70 ft-lbs EVERY time without a torque wrench. It's called being a skilled tradesman, not that unusual at all. You ought to see some of them weld by feel, it's quite amazing! I have my eye on a new set of wings, care to bet with me?
2. Before you bet you should know all these people go through a four to five year apprenticeship before they become licensed journeyman. I wouldn't let an electrician with only one years experience near my house. I'd advise you to do the same.
3. Comparing a diesel boat engine to a regulator is a major stretch in my mind. Mechanically speaking there is little to compare when discussing the skill to repair or maintain either.
4. It's apparent you like to work on your own stuff because you don't like to trust others who have proven themselves untrustworthy. That's admirable. Just try not to think about that the next time you fly commercial.
that spec was 55-70 IN/lbs.
And remember, its REPEATABILITY that's important here. If your guy can do it half the time, that's no good. If he can do it to at least two nines (99%) that's STILL not good enough, if the one time is MY reg! The bottom line is that it really has to be EVERY time on critical parts, because the one time you don't is the one time it may come apart.
55-70 in/lbs is a whole lot tougher to get right than 55-70 FT-lbs. The latter isn't all that tough with a 1/2" drive socket, as its pretty close to a reasonable approximation of most men's "hand force" on most common length 1/2" drive rachets....
And remember, its REPEATABILITY that's important here. If your guy can do it half the time, that's no good. If he can do it to at least two nines (99%) that's STILL not good enough, if the one time is MY reg! The bottom line is that it really has to be EVERY time on critical parts, because the one time you don't is the one time it may come apart.
55-70 in/lbs is a whole lot tougher to get right than 55-70 FT-lbs. The latter isn't all that tough with a 1/2" drive socket, as its pretty close to a reasonable approximation of most men's "hand force" on most common length 1/2" drive rachets....
Genesis,
As a dive shop owner I will send you to a manufacturers class and get you "authorized" to service the reg of your choice (as long as it's one of the ones I deal). Then you will lay off the torque thing. Nobody uses a torque wrench on regs. The manufacturer doesn't use them. I don't use then. Nobody has died.Nobody will die. This is the thickest most pointless bunch of bunk I have ever read.
The only solution I see is for you to go take the class and use their tools and see that a torque wrench isn't one of them.
As a dive shop owner I will send you to a manufacturers class and get you "authorized" to service the reg of your choice (as long as it's one of the ones I deal). Then you will lay off the torque thing. Nobody uses a torque wrench on regs. The manufacturer doesn't use them. I don't use then. Nobody has died.Nobody will die. This is the thickest most pointless bunch of bunk I have ever read.
The only solution I see is for you to go take the class and use their tools and see that a torque wrench isn't one of them.
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