The pony taboo

[scubadiver888]

There are two more issues with pony bottles that I don't see addressed very often in these threads so I'll bring them up here.

Often times divers will frown on the use of pony bottles for redundancy (buddy is your redundancy) and yet they show up with doubles. In this case they are basically arguing that you shouldn't have a pony for redundancy but they aren't relying solely on a buddy for redundancy since they show up with doubles. Doesn't make sense.

I also think a pony bottle user should make it clear to dive buddies that carrying the pony bottle changes nothing regarding anyone's training. If anyone is OOA then the buddy donates their spare regulator. Forget the pony bottle. If the pony bottle user choses to use it fine but don't assume anything. Also, if the pony bottle owner choses to donate the bottle that's fine as well but don't assume that either. The point here is that using a pony bottle doesn't make one a less effective buddy. It just provides one additional option.

Your post made me realize something. Do people who carry pony bottles discuss various scenarios with their dive buddy? I've seen a lot of divers on vacation who get assigned a buddy and never discuss signals, dive profiles, etc. Add a pony bottle to the mix and there is more room for confusion.

If my buddy has a pony bottle and gets into an OOA situation, I expect him to ask for share air before heading for the surface. Will he go share air before the pony bottle? If I get into an OOA situation will he hand me the oct, his primary or the pony?

Personally, I won't have a problem because I discuss these things even when a pony bottle isn't in the mix. If I saw someone with a pony bottle I'd ask them about it as well. What about those people who don't clarify it?

Additionally, if my buddy has a pony bottle is he going to be less diligent about staying nearby? Will he unconsciously think, "I have a pony bottle. Keeping my buddy, aka redundant air source, close isn't as important."

 

[Iain Thysse]

beer...LOL

 

[jkaterenchuk]

And another potential failure point which is something you dont want on a backup.

Why are you going to want to inflate your wing going up anyway?

The perspective of a failure point and your opinion that you do not want this on a backup is just that...opinion of which I will not engage in a debate. You think its a major consideration and I feel the risk/reward for the type of diving I do requires it. Eitherway my point to the poster was his/her instructor might have discussed the role it plays in different diving situations and equipment setups. Assuming that they received some instruction on the proper use of a pony.

I did not say that I want to inflate my wing when going up......maybe you mean another poster.

However, you should consider the usefulness of a backup LP inflator hose based upon all types of diving.

John

 

[String]

I cant see how oral inflate is such a problem.

 

[Saltwater Junky]

Always enjoy the heated debates. This one has not been a sleeper.

 

[PerroneFord]

beer...LOL

LOL! I know what you meant. It's my birthday, so beer is guaranteed!

 

[jkaterenchuk]

I cant see how oral inflate is such a problem.

In most cases its not.

Have you done any CCR diving? Any Cave diving? Have you dove with a dual inflate wing? I realize these types of diving are far beyond the scope of the original posters question. However, my point in raising it is to stress the need for proper training or mentoring on the use of a pony bottle and practising the skills versus just slapping one on because you heard its a good thing or read it on SB.

John

 

[Iain Thysse]

LOL! I know what you meant. It's my birthday, so beer is guaranteed!

Well in that case can I suggest a beer and a 30clt tequila pony?...and that is certainly not redundant!!!! Happy Birthday mate

 

[deerhunter1911a1]

i, too, am new to diving, but was out with my friend, who happens to also be my instructor, and we went down on a deep dive (120ft) and almost as soon as we got down there, my regulator decided to go into a violent free-flow. because of the buddy system, i let him know what was happening, we shared air, surfaced, and even had enough time/air left for out three-minute safety stop. my point being, that if you take it seriously, the buddy system works. as far as your earlier comment on both buddies being low on air, that is a concern, i suppose, but thats why this is recreational diving, and the surface SHOULD always be readily accessible. (you practiced CESA in your OW class right?) granted, a rapid ascent from that depth would warrant a ride in the chamber, with air from your buddy and any you can muster from your own tank, you should be able to ascend much slower than the max 60ft/min, and reach the surface safely. not saying a pony bottle isn't a good idea, i just agree with the others here that it is something that does not need to be mandatory, given the proper diving techniques.

 

[jkaterenchuk]

i, too, am new to diving, but was out with my friend, who happens to also be my instructor, and we went down on a deep dive (120ft) and almost as soon as we got down there, my regulator decided to go into a violent free-flow. because of the buddy system, i let him know what was happening, we shared air, surfaced, and even had enough time/air left for out three-minute safety stop. my point being, that if you take it seriously, the buddy system works. as far as your earlier comment on both buddies being low on air, that is a concern, i suppose, but thats why this is recreational diving, and the surface SHOULD always be readily accessible. (you practiced CESA in your OW class right?) granted, a rapid ascent from that depth would warrant a ride in the chamber, with air from your buddy and any you can muster from your own tank, you should be able to ascend much slower than the max 60ft/min, and reach the surface safely. not saying a pony bottle isn't a good idea, i just agree with the others here that it is something that does not need to be mandatory, given the proper diving techniques.

I am glad that the result was that you surfaced with enough air. I would point out that the result could well have been much different. At 120 ft depending upon how much time had elapsed in the dive you instructor could well have not had enough air left in his tank to allow him and you to reached the surface. Combine that with the real possibility that a new diver will be in a state of panic in that situation and that depth, possible narcosis, slowed response due to cold temp at depth, possible poor visabilty due to panic diver kicking up the bottom and the result could easily be a death.

As for doing a CESA from that depth. The vast majority of divers if they tried would arrive at the surface (if they did arrive) unconcious and if still breathing good candidates for other DCS problems. Many students have great difficulty doing a CESA from 25 ft.

Read some of the accidents in local quarrys. I have seen many regulators free flow when subjected to cold water.

I think you might want to reconsider your post dive opinion of what happen and revise it to be more of a "Oh S*$" situation and start to look at the reasons it happened and what you should do to prevent it in the future and be ready should it happen again and your buddy is not so readily accessible.

I agree that the buddy system can work but guess what.....your the one the dies should it not.....and possibly your buddy as a result of your actions when in a state of panic.

Some food for thought for you.

John