The PADI ascent order

[sjhm]

Dear All,

Having just finished my PADI DM, a constant source of dicussion between all the interns and instructors alike is the sequence of a PADI order of safe ascents. We know the order, but why, please someone shed some light, is the CESA before buddy breathing? That may be all well and good at ten meters, but give me any diver at 30 meters who is out of ait and give them the option, I know what I would take.

If there is a logical and scientific reason for this apparent idiocy I will back down and accept it.

Any PADI rule maker who would like to come to 30 meters with me and prove me wrong can contact me here.

 

[voop]

sjhm once bubbled...
Dear All,

Having just finished my PADI DM, a constant source of dicussion between all the interns and instructors alike is the sequence of a PADI order of safe ascents. We know the order, but why, please someone shed some light, is the CESA before buddy breathing? That may be all well and good at ten meters, but give me any diver at 30 meters who is out of ait and give them the option, I know what I would take.

If there is a logical and scientific reason for this apparent idiocy I will back down and accept it.

Any PADI rule maker who would like to come to 30 meters with me and prove me wrong can contact me here.

Well, good question I actually asked two different instructors the very same question independantly...

They both said "PADI considers that buddy-breathing is too complicated and require too much motoric skills and too much coordination, so in a stressing situation, CESA is better"

One of them said "And I think that's correct"....the other said "but I think that's bull****, if you're much below 10 m, then if there's any air available, it's better than no air. And definitely, no beginners can do CESA from 20m....."

The one who disagreed with the PADI order even said, that he did not count a "wrong order" on the PADI OW exam as a "wrong answer".

It's probably a standards violation, but he's a good instructor otherwise, and -- I must say -- I think I agree with him

 

[HarleyDiver]

Just another example why you should not blindly follow anyone or any group. Nobody's solution fits everyone.

Personally I do not believe Buddy breathing is that tough, and anyone too stupid to be able to master those skills shouldn't be diving.

Everyone used to require it to get OW cert, but dropped the requirement after the idea of carrying more gear took off.

 

[the_dumper]

The CESA would be preferred over buddy breathing in shallow depths, when the surface is nearer than your buddy.
Performing a CESA from 30m would be pretty hard which is why you then have the option of buddy breathing and buoyant ascent.
If however you where in say 8m of water and for whatever reason your buddy was not nearby then a CESA would be a perfectly reasonable option, it's all a question of the situation that you are in at the time and finding the best solution, out of air at 30m, switch to an alternate air source or perform an OOA ascent with your buddy, so no need for a CESA or buddy breathing at this depth unless you have to.

 

[Zept]

A CESA puts one diver at risk. Buddy breathing puts two divers at risk. Given that most OW divers are not trained in buddy breathing, I would expect CESA to produce fewer injuries at OW depths (ie, down to 18m).

Personally, I would not dive with anyone who didn't have an alternate air source, so the question is moot for me.

Z

 

[j-valve]

When I asked I was told it was too hard for beginners. Assuming both divers have a similar set up with a primary and secondary reg, when diver 1 has no gas at almost any depth would go to diver 2 for air. That we were taught. Then diver 2 has a problem-no gas, so now diver 1 waves bye bye and heads to the surface?? Being a good buddy, diver 2 follows... trying to keep up? If buddy breathing is to hard then it won't occur to diver 2 to ascend at a slower pace, or do a safety stop at all.

J

 

[MikeFerrara]

First of all, since it's not required that buddy breathing be taught at the OW level, it shouldn't be on the list at all. How can you proritize the use of something that isn't being taught.

The practical need for buddy breathing is argues on the basis that every one these days dives with a backup second stage. But...things have an uncanny nack of not working when you need them. Also how many divers do we see diving with their backup just dangling where they will never find it fast enough if they need it. PROBLEM ONE.

Personally I believe that buddy breathing (team is working together to sove the problem) is always a better solution than a CESA (buddy seperation?).

Buddy breathing does take practice and maybe that's where the agencies problem is with it since so many OW classes don't practice anything but just do each little thing once.

your buddy has one reg that you know for a fact that you can find and get air from and that's the one he/she is breathing. Who wants to take a chance on anything else when they're turning blue?

Just another one of those little things that I strongly disagree with PADI on. And no I haven't let that lead me to violate any standards. I will, however, let my membership run out the end of this month because I'm convinced that they haven't a clue.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Zept once bubbled...
A CESA puts one diver at risk. Buddy breathing puts two divers at risk. Given that most OW divers are not trained in buddy breathing, I would expect CESA to produce fewer injuries at OW depths (ie, down to 18m).

Personally, I would not dive with anyone who didn't have an alternate air source, so the question is moot for me.

Z

It doesn't put any one at risk unless one or both divers are no good and/or in a panic.

Having an alternate air source is one thing. Finding it and deploying it and having it work is three more things. Again I refer to the number of divers who dive with their alternate just draging.

 

[Genesis]

....had better work, since its on a hose that's only long enough for it to benefit ME!

 

[the_dumper]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


It doesn't put any one at risk unless one or both divers are no good and/or in a panic.

Mike, you are quite an experienced diver, but how many times have you seen novice divers panic and shoot to the surface or pull a reg out of there buddys mouth, buddy breathing is usually the last thing on there mind?
If they are going to go, it would be better that they are breathing out on the ascent so teaching CESA is not a bad thing.