The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[Kat]

If you buy from LP you can expect to save 50% of what the LDS is selling. That means you can get 4 sets of equipment for the price of 2. IMHO the LDS would have to go an extra 50 miles. Don't let anyone scare you about the warranty being void if you buy on-line either. That warranty wont save you very much. (10 bucks f/ parts) & it'll cost you a heck of alot more to keep the warranty active.
Since you stated you are a new diver, you might feel you need the emotional & technical support of your LDS. If that support is worth double the cost of your equipment, then by all means buy from your LDS.

If you could buy a brand new car, on-line, for half of what every dealership was selling it for...would you do it? No warranty-but brand new, never been driven and exactly the same make & model. Would you do it?

 

[aepstein]

Thank All for your replies.

Right after I posted this thread, I found more on this topic under General Equipment (go figure!). Same mix of opinions there too!

Your advise and opinions are appreciated.

Alan

 

[DiverBuoy]

I am a strong proponent of support your LDS. Though the Internet is cheaper - IMO the pure Internet Dive Shop has put many LDSs out of business, and they will continue to do so.

Think about this. If all divers bought their equipment on the web (essentially eliminating the dive shop) - how will you fill your tanks in the future? Will we dive only from boats? No way can a business operate solely on renting, filling, and maintaining tanks and diving instruction. So can YOU afford to purchase and maintain your own compressor too?

(Local Dive Shops that also have a website and sell gear are ok to buy from by the way - even from their Internet pages. But not the pure Internet Dive Shop)

What I see is hundreds of divers going down to their local dive shops and trying stuff on then going on-line to purchase. This is so short sighted. Internet dive shoppers are inadvertently speeding the obsolesence of the very sport they love. I am passionate about this subject. It is a disservice to the dive community to solely operate a dive business over the Internet. If you must buy an item or two on Ebay (or other to remain nameless), be sure you also spread a good portion of your hard earned money on your LDS. Please save diving for future generations.

Again for those of you who have no "local" dive shop, pick a website that is hosted by a brick and mortar dive shop to purchase from.

In case you were wondering - I have never purchased anything for diving on-line and I never will.

 

[jonnythan]

I see this argument over and over and over. "Support your LDS because you can't get air fills online!" It's been beaten to death many times over. Air fills will always be available. Period.

My LDS is all but useless. I don't trust one person with a vested interest in selling me something to give me advice on what to buy. I think anyone who does is mad. My LDS guys never would have told me about getting rid of my snorkel, switching to a long hose/bungeed backup regulator, or even what *good* diving is, as I've learned from the internet.

If the LDS guys want to charge me 50%-200% more for a piece of gear while offering nothing useful other than the promise of air fills, they simply won't get my business. I'm not concerned about "saving diving for future generations," a claim that doesn't even make any sense. You seem to want to think that if people buy online the industry will collapse. That's absurd.

I would love to know why you support a failing business model.

Here's an idea:

Buy your stuff online, then calculate how much money you saved that year by not buying from the LDS. Take the difference and give it to your LDS owner in cash, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that represents a far larger profit for them.

 

[Welshman]

By all means support your local LDS but the quid pro quo is that your LDS has to offer a service that supports you.

The internet is here to stay and any LDS who thinks they can continue to quote MRSP and stay in business will be bust fast.

I'm quite prepared to pay a premium over the net price but I need something in return and that is that intangible thing called service, whether it consists of good advice, arranging good dive trips, having qualified service technicians, a good range of stock or whatever.

Jonnythan is right - buying online isn't going to cause the collapse of the diving industry - LDSs are going to have to change as the old business model is no longer valid.

Diverbuoy, if you never want to buy on the net that's your prerogative, but don't expect the rest of us to use our hard earned £ or $ to subsidise someone who's not delivering in return.

Regards

 

[MgicTwnger]

It's not only your local dive shops that are in competition with the internet, it's everyone. Anything you want is out there, and usually at a better price than from a brick-and-mortar shop.

When I'm in the market for something, the first place I check is eBay. There's a reason that eBay has gotten huge while other dot coms have gone belly-up: the business model works! More and more new, warrentied merchandise is there all the time.

Small local shops can no longer compete on price alone, so must offer a service that I'm willing to pay for to get my business. I'll gladly pay a few bucks more at my LDS because of the services they provide, but not 50% more on big ticket items.

 

[redacted]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...
I am a strong proponent of support your LDS. Though the Internet is cheaper - IMO the pure Internet Dive Shop has put many LDSs out of business, and they will continue to do so.

Think about this. If all divers bought their equipment on the web (essentially eliminating the dive shop) - how will you fill your tanks in the future? Will we dive only from boats? No way can a business operate solely on renting, filling, and maintaining tanks and diving instruction. So can YOU afford to purchase and maintain your own compressor too?

Do you really see recreational diving becoming an endangered venture because of LDS's closing due to internet competition? I don't. But I do see the industry changing. The LDS business plan will have to change from a model that makes its profit from retail sales to one that competes with internet sales on a price basis and shifts more of its profit sources to training and services. The ineffecient, non-competetive LDS that prays on the uninformed consumer is going to suffer but those that are run like a good business will make the change and survive. And I think we will all be better off for it.

 

[DiverBuoy]

Internet is good - I do it for my day job - my company is 100% an on-line business.

The point I'm making here is feel free to purchase goods on-line - but if you do - use the websites of diveshops - many of them give you a very healthy margin off. In fact as I'm browsing dozens of sites I'm seeing 35$-45% off most merchandise. Can you get it for less from a pure Internet Dive Shop YES, but the point I'm making is don't. Just decide now to support dive shops. Just do it. The LDS who deliver the value-add your looking for - like any business that caters to the customer - will survive. And the poorly run businesses (like dive shops that totally ignore the internet potential) are doomed to fail and they deserve to fail for their shortsightedness. Even if you shop on Ebay or other more shameless (oops nameless) - please spread your money. Regarding comments here about poor quality local LDSs - there is an easy solution - find another store.

Shame on any diver who goes all around to the shops trying stuff on, but then goes on-line to purchase. Do this for other things that don't have such simbiotic relationship. But change your consumer habits for diving. For those of you who do this BTW - you deserve a future where you can't try stuff on and you can't return your badly chosen on-line purchases. I only wish your myopic view of the future had no bearing on mine.

It's ignorant of anyone to think if "All" LDSs go out of business we'll still have access to tank fills and other non-Internet deliverables and services - besides maybe boat operators - and resort dive establishments.

 

[raviepoo]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...

It's ignorant of anyone to think if "All" LDSs go out of business we'll still have access to tank fills and other non-Internet deliverables and services - besides maybe boat operators - and resort dive establishments.

It's impossible for all LDSs to go out of business. There is a market for training. There is a market for travel. There is a market for charters. There is a market for scuba sundries, last minute odds and ends like o rings, gauge guards, extra fin straps, etc. There is a market for service and repair. Finally, there is a market for big ticket items of gear.

Even if every single big ticket item was purchased online, someone would still have to support all of the other needs of divers. That's where the LDS comes in.

Dive ops in warm places have it easy. Gear can be a side line for them while they make their money taking divers out to dive. In other locations, the LDSs that survive will be the ones that offer their customers the most value. A shop that opens it's doors from 10 to 6 to sell gear in the hopes that I will drop thousands of dollars on regulators and BCDs and neoprene, but offers little else of value is not the shop that will get my business. The shop will get my business is the one that:

fills my tank,
trains me,
sells me a replacement underwater light when I'm on my way to the quarry and discover that I left my light behind at the hotel on my last trip to the carribean,
happily services the regulator that I bought on sale elsewhere (and charges me for the service of course)
has an affiliated dive club or program of diving related seminars and activites,
runs frequent group trips to exotic locations,
offers bus rides to the quarry to make it easy for me to dive locally.

There is such a shop in New York City. I can't see it going under due to Internet competition. There are always people in there. Every time I've gone in there to make a purchase I have had to wait for the sales people to finish up with other customers before helping me. In a city that has seen 3 dive shops close in the last year, and located exactly 30 blocks away from leisurepro's brick and mortar retail location, this shop seems to be thriving. They must be doing something right.

 

[metridium]

DiverBuoy wrote...
(Local Dive Shops that also have a website and sell gear are ok to buy from by the way - even from their Internet pages. But not the pure Internet Dive Shop)

Hmmmm....let's see....FifthD, Extreme Exposure, Lloyd Bailey's, Diver's Supply, and Simplyscuba.com, to name a few, all provide fills and classes onsite. I believe DiveInn does the same, though I'm not sure.

In fact, the only "pure Internet Dive Shop" I can think of is Leisure Pro. Is this really just an anti-LP rant in disguise?