The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

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Yknot...

I have too have heard some bad things about Dacor, but that was suppose to be befor ethey were aquired my Mares. I have even heard them refered to as Deathcor. I have never heard anything really negative about Mares, except that their computers were too complicated and their stuff gets changed and renamed far to often. I definitly have to agree that plenty of people are willing to bad mouth equipment they don't carry., which i don't mind as long as you can give me a good reason why.
 
I guess one slant to the whole "on-line vs. LDS" argument that I never hear about is unfair or biased brand preference.

Since an on-line scuba shop represents so many brands, I never feel I am being pushed into one brand or another. They offer a smorgasboard of options and give pros and cons about each. They then leave it up to me to decide which brand/product is right for me given the information. It's a pretty simple transaction.

My local LDS's, on the other hand, are reps for only a few brands. And to make matters worse, each of them gets better incentives from a particular brand over the others. So what do you think happens? They get *very* pushy about the brand they pander to (i.e. the one that gives them the best margins) and slam everything else. Go to a Scubapro dealer and they will tell you everything else is shi*t -- buy only Scubapro. Then go to a dealer that sells Sherwood and they will tell you horror stories about everything else other than Sherwood. The Oceanic dealer will push Oceanic and slam other brands. And on and on...

When is the last time you heard an LDS say "well, we carry regulators from Brand X and Y, but in your price point, neither of these are very good. I actually recommend Brand Z's regulator from the LDS down the street". Hah! When pigs fly.

I have heard a lot of people moan about the "bad advice" their LDS gave them when selling (pushing) them into a particular brand or product. Many people say with regret when they discover the real truth behind their purchase (i.e. when it breaks and they figure out that the problem is not unique to them): "if I only knew" or "if I only did more research/homework". Sure, you can fault these people for not doing the research, but the point is that the LDS's should be trusted to protect the consumer by giving them honest, reliable, and unbiased advice.

And here's the best part. One of my LDS's *ragged* on Scubapro equipment. They pushed lots of other brands, including Uwatec. But when Uwatec was bought by Scubapro and this particular LDS no longer could sell Uwatec, guess what? They pushed another brand. But then a year later they became a Scubapro dealer and guess what they now push? Scubapro and Uwatec. Unbelievable.

And this is where the conflict of interest lies. On one hand, the LDS has an obligation to be protective of the public. After all, diving is a sport with risk and consumers need to be protected from those risks when the consumer asks for advice. But the LDS also needs to protect the relationship with their vendors by moving product.

Obviously there are LDS's that put their customer's best interest at heart and give honest advice, even if that means losing a sale. But many that I have dealt with seem to be the opposite -- they want my money regardless of how they get it.

I know there isn't an easy answer to how the LDS's will solve the problem of loss of business to on-line shops. But let's face it folks -- on-line shopping is only getting more and more popular, and fighting it is a wasted effort. And as more and more products in general are bought on-line, consumers will expect they can buy their dive gear on-line as well. Vendors and business will either need to get with the program and figure out how they can partake in the on-line world or risk becoming a dinosaur.

As I have said numerous times, capitalism and technology are both wonderful things. It's futile to resist...

Thx...Doug
 
Your point is valid regarding service and knowledge from LDS workers. However, paying 150-200% over what I could pay online for the exact same item is outright silly. A good example, I have a pair of Mares Volo fins. They are great fins, I have no complaints about them at all. The LDS recommended them, told me the benefits, and sold them to me for $179-. I didn't know any better, being a newbie at the time. Guess what, the same fins at DiveInn is $79-. A hundred less, no service is worth that. I have went back to the LDS and talked to them about BC/regs/computers, got their great advice, then bought online for a lot less. Maybe if they didn't screw me in the first place I might be more willing to help the guys out, I won't get burned again. Just my 2 cents.

Mel
 
This is such a no brainer. Its my money. I save big money buying equipment on line that I pour back into my LDS for other direct dive related expenses.

My LDS gets my training, my fills and my trips. They get my annual gear service, they get my tank inspections. They also get my inspections for my on-line purchases (my Atomic regs, my BC, etc.) I pay them going rate to check this stuff, as an authorized dealer, to be sure its dive worthy. They do not get my major equipment dollars. It pisses them off when I roll in with new gear on a trip, but that's life. I will not pay $1800 for a drysuit I can pay $1100 for someplace else. Its that simple. I won't pay $200 for a light I can get for $139 on eBay.

I recieve no benefit (and I mean no direct financial benefit) from spending thousands with them on trips, training and getting gouged for fills every year. No discount on gear purchases, no frequent buyer program encouraging me to return, nothing. I pay full retail for my small stuff (gloves, hoses, etc.) and then go get the 3 and 4-digit purchases where ever the best deal is (eBay, leisure pro, etc.)

The LDS sells gear at full boat to students, rookies and people who don't know how to get a deal, or affluent people who believe they're "supporting" the store by buying all their stuff there, or ignorant people that don't know better.

I love these guys, I get great training there, and I pay full price for that training. I tip well on all of their trips and don't leave a wake of bad PR for them when I dive. But major purchases? No way. Sales Tax on an $1800 drysuit is about $148. Freight on the same drysuit (that I'll pay $1100 for on-line) is about $16.

K
 
I'm new to this board (and diving .. just received my OTW cerification last month) and I haven't seen any threads on the advantages/disadvantages of purchasing on-line vs. my LDS.

This board is awesome and has been great in helping me decide on brand & model, now it's a matter of where.

I'm looking to purchase 4 sets of gear (BCD, reg, computer...) as my wife and kids were also certified so any $ savings is really a 4X gain.

My LDS has a natural bias against on-line and touts the service advantages he can provide.

I'd appreciate any suggestions & situations to avaoid.

Alan

BTW - I'm opting for the SP Mk25/G250HP, SP R190 octo, SP Glide Plus BCD and Uwatec Pro Ultra Console.
 
Any good dive shop will be willing to deal a bit when it comes to buying 4 sets of gear.
They may not be able to discount the SP stuff because of their price fixing agreement with SP, but they can sweeten the pot by tossing in other goodies, like free air fills, etc.
If they're not willing to deal then look for another shop.

Some folks would get the regs locally & then go with an online source for the rest. It saves trouble down the road when it comes time for your annual regulator servicing.
Don't be afraid to spend a few bucks more to support your local shop. If you're lucky enough to have a GOOD shop near you, it's a good investment.
 
You might want to rethink the scuba pro thing if your going to buy from your LDS. Not that it's not excellent equipment, just that your LDS doesn't have the room to work on the price.

According to my LDS they have a contract in place with scubapro that only allows them to discount 10% (versus the 40+% you'll get at leisurepro), other manufacturers give them more room to work with. What some stores will do is discount none SP stuff bought along with the SP regs to give you an overall discount.
 
Anytime a customer wants to pony up the dough for four folks there is lots and lots of room for other value to be added,,

Check out things like
Free air,
discount on courses
free charters
etc, etc, etc

Keep it local, spend a bit more bucks, get much better diving - my opinion.

(and I don't own, work at or anything else , except hang out, at a dive store. :) )
 
It's worth more money to buy stuff from your local dive shop because your local dive shop includes advice and good will as part of the sale. Not to mention the whole warranty issue. How much of a premium is a question that each of us needs to answer individually.

How much "extra mile" do you need from the dive shop? How much "extra mile" is the dive shop willing (or able) to provide?

New divers, especially, should place a substantial premium on developing a good relationship with a good dive shop. The fastest way to do this is usually to buy a bunch of stuff.

Good luck.
 
From www.scubastore.com (diveinn)

mk25 $170
S600 $237
R190 $85

you save aboult $20 buying seperately. No g250hp available.

Pro ultra $345

Glide 500 $215
1000 $280
2000 $356
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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