The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

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Mike I understand your frustration, but in the end it is your responsibility to create value for your customers. If you create value that your customers can perceive then you will thrive, if you can't then you will go out of business. I have read a lot of your posts and understand that you are passionate about diving and have the best of intentions. However what you fail to realize is that the value that you are trying to create is not something that gives value to most people.

I have a friend who is in the tree care business. He is very passionate about taking great care of trees, pruning and cutting properly etc. and I am sure his work is great. But you know what? Most people are happy to take a hacksaw to a tree and be done with it. He wants to charge a premium for his services, but very few people see value in what he does.

The fact is a majority of people who learn to dive are doing it to be able to have some extra fun on their vacation. The next segment gets into diving a little more seriously and tries to go on tropical vacations once or twice a year. Another group loves diving and will dive in anything. The groups are probably more segmented than that, but based on some kind of segmentation you need to be able to provide value to that group.

The model that you were proposing which was training only is great, however for people in the first group, it is unlikely that the quality of training really matters. To cater to the first group you probably need some slick marketing, lots of colorful brochures, good looking, intelligent well groomed dive instructors. It is unlikely that you will sell a lot of high end equipment so most likely you would primarily stock the basics, masks, fins and snorkels and some nice looking BC's. The volume of customers through the store is probably very high, the time you spend with them is short. You don't make much margin per customer but you have very high volume and the trick is to keep a reasonable level of quality for the type of diving that most of your clients are doing. Think Target.

At the other end of the spectrum you get to the more serious divers. The volume of people going through the store drops but the time you spend with them is high. They prize training highly and so you can charge a premium for it. They are more likely to buy high end equipment so you carry the tech equipment and not so much of the other stuff.

One dive shop I go to is a yuppie dive shop, they charge high prices, but have a very bright clean shop with a lot of space. They don't hire quite the right people, but I can see what they are aiming for. Another dive shop has a crusty old owner who is just the nicest guy. They lean towards tech diving. The shop is very cluttered but they carry the high end tech. The other dive shops are middle of the road and are all about the same - no differentiation.
 
LDS to band together would be about as successful as getting farmers to organize and demand a better deal than they are getting now. In other words its not going to happen.

You've never heard of farmer's cooperatives? They are organized to promote the interests of their members.

Business owners who want to stay in business will find a way to work together if that's what it takes.
 
BEACHBUM885 once bubbled...
...I only buy that which I can see and inspect in person at a reputable local dealer that is qualified to perform the necessary maintenance on the equipment he/she sells....

:confused: Is there actually a dive shop within 100 miles of Mason City? There's a guy here in Ames who has a "shop" of sorts, but I think it's in his garage/basement. There is also a shop in Des Moines, was in the paper a few months back when a bunch of people got "busted" making a trip to Cuba. But in Mason City I would think you'd be best off buying online since there's not really any other option!
 
hi all-This is going to be long and dont know if it will help but it is a perspective
Well i have just finished buying alot of my stuff at my lds. Whew this was pricey-- just for fun i took a look at what i could have gotten my stuff for at lds/lp/di. For me personally there are some things i find that i REALLY wanted to know where the product came from and that a warrenty is nice(reg,bc,computer). -- fins/weights--lights ect seems like lp or di would work fine.

(both lp and di have the pc adaptor for the vyper--so not sure if its the same as the vytec so i wont figure this into the total--but just showing here)

here is what i got:
atk200 reg........................lds=607......lp=379.....di=485
sea quest balance bc........lds=459......lp=399.....di=n/a
vytec w/ trans...................lds=1071....lp=849.....di=809
vytec pc adaptor...............lds=142......lp=124.....di=78
sp frameless mask............lds=98........lp=n/a......di=71
sp jet fins..........................lds=170......lp=134.....di=144
akona back bag................lds=182......lp=139.....di=n/a
tax....................................lds=206......lp=0.........di=0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
total (minus the pc adpt)..lds=2793.....lp=1900...di=1509

now you can see that these totals differ quite a bit but lp and di dont have all the things that i was able to get at my lds(labled as n/a) so they could not be figured in-below you will see a total example with the same things added up lds to lp and lds to di with the things i could get at both spots.
compairing lds to lp and lds to di
lds=2695......lp=1900......difference=795
lds=2101......di=1509......difference=592

you can see i paid 2793-- if i had just ordered from the places that were the least exspensive the it would have totalled 1931
difference from lds to a lp/di combo = 862 (very close to a 1/3 less)

One thing that was not figured into this is the cost of shipping--i was unable to get these numbers from lp and di unless i placed the order.

Now with all this being said-- there are a few things(the things that keep me alive) i would want to KNOW where they came from and that they are from a dealer and not off the back of a truck or god knows where( i know there is a difference of views on this and you just need to do what is good for you).
so if i got the reg/bc and computer from lds and the rest from lp or di the savings woudl be as below
lds stuff(reg-comp-bc)=2307( i included tx)
lds for other stuff no mask cause lp didnt offer it...=410....lp=273..save=137
lds for other stuff with no bag.....lds=289......di=215......save=74


Ok-- so what did all this show-- well one thing is that i have wayyy too much time on my hands--lol and the other is that FOR ME---- i wouldnt have really shaved that much (since i wanted to get my important stuff reg-comp-bc) from my lds-- i would only have saved 74-137-- and by the time i get shiping in there it would be even less saving. BUT if you are a person that feels ok getting those things from online(and i dont personally think those that do are wrong at all --i just wanted to know where the things i was putting in my mouth to stay alive came from) you would have saved a THIRD-- and that is big money-- close to a GRAND($1000 USD)--back in your pocket to travel with--or have a nice weekend with your girlfriend or boyfriend-- or to (god forbid) to save.

i hope this example of money spent locally vs online can help you get a idea on what is best for you and that you get your shopping done and get in the water and have funnnnnnnn:)
 
Hoopa, your numbers seem a little skewed to me. I'm actually surprised that you aren't saving *more* on-line at Dive-Inn or Leisure Pro. But I see that you list Seaquest and Scubapro as your primary brands. And I've noticed that these aren't discounted as heavily on-line.

When I shopped around, I found the following:

Oceanic Delta-3 Reg: LP $224 LDS $479 (>50%)
Oceanic Gamma-2 Reg: LP $179 LDS $389 (>50%)
UK SL-4 Flashlight: LP $24 LDS $38 (40%)
Princeton Tech retractor: LP $15 LDS $30 (50%)
Suunto Cobra computer: LP $420 LDS $700 (40%)
Cressi Big Eyes mask: LP $35 LDS $68 (~50%)


These are just a few examples of equipment that I either bought or shopped heavily. I know Dive-Inn was also close in price on other similar brands.

But the savings grow even more if you buy clearance or last year merchandise. I recently purchased a Scubapro Superhawk NT BC for only $229 from LP. That's at least 50% off what any LDS would sell a 2001 model for, probably closer to 70% (that BC originally retailed for $650). So if you're not into the newest fads, on-line shops can be even cheaper...

Thx...Doug
 
I'm pro-online shopping. When signing up originally for my OW class, I went to the LDS and got all the gear that they said I needed for my class. Fins, mask, snorkel, gloves, and boots. After getting my OW cert, I found online shops such as DiveInn and Leisure Pro, much to my surprise and disgust I found them to be a whole lot cheaper than what I paid. I didn't know any better, unfortunately. For the LDS to take advantage of people like that is a shame. I will never buy another piece of equipment at an LDS. I've got kids to feed, why pad the LDS owner's pockets?

Mel
 
Does anyone know how Leisure Pro is doing financially? We're negating our manufactures warranty for a companies warranty that we don't know if they will be around in 2 years (not that I won't have bought all new equipment by than anyways). Just curious.

I get the same feeling before I buy a generic at a store. You're just wondering where they really get their savings.

Kevin
 
nyscubanerd once bubbled...

I get the same feeling before I buy a generic at a store. You're just wondering where they really get their savings.

Kevin

They didn't spend the millions of dollars on product development.
 
As much as I hate paying such high prices for equipment there are definate advantages to buying from your LDS. Besides the warranty, there is the service. Most shops i have been to are very willing to help me even though i clearly stated I am just shopping at the time with no intention to dive. They also have a wealth of personal experience from which to draw from. I have spent the last 8 years working in a ski shop and I know that being able to tell a customer about first hand experience with a product can be a big help...especially when the product is quite expensive. You also have to consider that a lot of times the prices that the LDS are strictly controled by the manufactuers. I know from my experience that many products including ski equipment, consumer electronics, and even baseball bats are priced according to guidelines established by the manufacturers. I am not too sure how LP gets their equipment, but DI in in Europe an from what I understand the laws on the other side of the pond do not allow for such price fixing. I will more than likely be buying my equipment from both online and local sources. My computer wil; be purchased at the local dive shop though as will any exposure suits since i am an odd shape. As far as regs and BC's go its kind of a toss up. For the price of an Apeks AT50/ATX40 combo from Dive Inn I can get a Sherwood Brute or Blizzard and maybe an octo. As long as I can get hte regs serviced locally I will probably go with the Apeks, though I intend to check out my local Poseidon dealer soon as they seem to coming down in price.

In the end, just remember you aren't always paying for just the product, but also the service and the sale person's experience and knowledge.
 
Just a thought- While all of my LDS's are very negative (for the obviously transparent reasons)about online sales, they also have nothing nice to say about each other or the brands they don't sell. I keep hearing , in particular, that Mares and Dacor (I know- same company) are junk. I have no experiance with either and cannot judge the validity of these claims but these are both brands that seem heavily discounted and promoted on line. I also haven't seen any warranty disclaimers for on line purchases for these brands. Could my LDS's distaste for these products just be coincidental? It seems that some major players in the dive industry haven't yet learned that customer service will equal market success. Look at what your LDS sells: training from an agency (pick one but you are not the customer here)and gear (same rules as training).
 

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