The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[JustAddWater]

Ferrara,
Your last post really puts the LDS's situation in perspective. It must be very difficult for shops to compete with online dealers. As for me, I attempt to buy all of my gear from my LDS. I know I pay more money for it, but I prefer to support local businesses. (I avoid Wal-Mart for the same reason.) Perhaps small business needs to evolve to survive. Because I value the idea of local patronage, I will continue to pay more for it.

 

[MNScuba]

There's a difference between paying MORE for something and paying TOO MUCH for something, and unfortunately the LDS's don't have much say in what they have to charge to keep the doors open. I agree with you that someday LDS's will be places to ORDER your gear, have your equipment worked on and your tanks filled. They will probably have one or two employees at most and a couple more if it's a school as well. It's a sad thing, and I wish there were a way for the manufacturers and the shops to work out something profitable.

 

[Ari]

Supporting you LDS makes good sense, but not at any price.

For me, I try to take it on a case by case basis. If it makes good sense to buy over the net, I will.

I will consider the following:

1. Form/Fit/function -- there are things you must try on, so buying at your LDS makes better sense.
2. Warranty and Service -- some pieces of equipment require more service than others.
3. Reliability of LDS / Web source.
4. Price and life cycle cost.

The order of parameter evaluation will, naturally, be different with different pieces of equipment.

Anyway, that's the way I do it.

I am trying to support my LDS as much as possible, but at the same time be aware that I am not paying way too much for it.

Ari

 

[SpyderTek]

I've made a few calls so far and have definately gotten a weird result for the at least two big companies...

I bought my reg (TX-50) online from a european online dealer because it was over 50% off my LDS. Because I had heard so much about the warrenty issue (even though the place I got it from said tehy would cover any warrenties manufacturers refused) so I called the manufacturer and asked them about the warrenty. They asked where I got it from? I told them over seas. Turns out they will honor the warrenty if the reg was puchased online from an over seas source but not if purchased online from a domestic source. I told my LDS this and they made the same call and was told that was false and that no one at at their fascility would ever make such a statement.

I got sot of the same response from Suunto regarding the Cobra. I called Suunto and asked if they would honor a warrenty if I purchased their computer from Diveinn.com and they said sure. We aren't just a scuba maufacturer you know.

Now I dont know if I was talking to un-informed customer service reps or I was being fed a line so that I'd at elast buy their product no matter from what source....

So, my experience definately seems to support the idea that there are drastically different rules for online sales between USA and Abroad.
----------------

Ferrara: Another thing I am currious about. If we, the end consumer, are able to purchase hese items at a 2 for 1 price off line...Why don't you order a bunch from online and sell them with a smal mark-up out of your store "As Is"? You don't need a contract to resell items you own. And you can warrenty them with a store warrenty or somthing. Seems to me this would allow you to carry whatever brand you want, set your own prices, control your own labor for services and possibly even make an extra buck off of selling store warrenties.

Just my thoughts,

Frugally,

Spydertek

 

[waterdogs]

Thought I would jump on the "online wagon" question vs. LDS since I guess Im a product of both you would say'.

Within the last month, well about 45 day's or so, I've spent approx. $1,400 for me and my future wife's equipment and certs', at my LDS which includes: Mask snorkels,fins, boots, gloves, bags,knives and classes. I plan on spending another $600 with them on OWC next month. $2000 within 45 day's. I have supported my LDS.

However, I' just recently purchased my BC, Reg, 4 wetsuits and two other masks from an online site. Approx. $1500 worth of equipment which would have cost me an approx. $2000+ at my LDS.

Am I a bad guy, wrong, NO I do not believe so.

Infact, Murdoch's answer on trying things on at a LDS and buying online being just wrong, I don't know. I visited another LDS which carries other brands and bought another bag and dive skins, spent about $260 yesterday and plan on taking my wife there to try on a BC for her, but do I plan to purchase there? I just don't know, they want $600 for the same BC I can get online for $420. The same with regs.

Do I feel Im wrong by trying equipment on there and purchasing somewhere else. NO. I did support that LDS with $260 worth of purchases, they could atleast let my wife try on a BC even though I don't buy it there.

What about the folks who just can't afford diving? As you can see, I've gone crazy with gear purchases, but what about some who can't pay the price for gear at LDS'? Are we eliminating some of those folks from diving and experience of having their own gear?

Why shouldn't they buy online if it can save them $1000 or so, maybe more people would be able to dive?

Warranties: I hope my purchase of reg's will last a year before needing service. If not, then that's where i feel the LDS should prepare themselves for the future. Not overcharging me $300 for a BC.

Off the Wagon now. Good comments from the board.

waterdogs

 

[ifukuda]

SpyderTek says:

Ferrara: Another thing I am currious about. If we, the end consumer, are able to purchase hese items at a 2 for 1 price off line...Why don't you order a bunch from online and sell them with a smal mark-up out of your store "As Is"? You don't need a contract to resell items you own. And you can warrenty them with a store warrenty or somthing. Seems to me this would allow you to carry whatever brand you want, set your own prices, control your own labor for services and possibly even make an extra buck off of selling store warranties.

Sounds like a great idea to me. Sounds like the potential future of the diving industry.

Good for divers:
Divers get great deals on gear...near online prices for gear, but we get still get the LDS service.

Good for shops:
Shops get to charge reasonable fees for servicing gear (none of this working for free crap).
Great deals on gear should draw more divers to the shop ... better cash flow and circulation of stock.

*Divers buying the gear will have understand and agree to the fact that they are not getting the manufacturer warranty (they will get whatever warranty the LDS can honor). BUT, based on the large volume of online gear sales, we already know that a large percentage of divers can live without having their gear warrantied by the manufacturer (as long as there is trust between the diver and retailer). The online retailers have bit the bullet and proven this piece of marketing data, LDSs should use this info.

If enough LDSs go this route, US distributors would lose a significant chunk of their business to overseas retailers and distributors. Whether the US distributors like it or not, they would have to compete with overseas distributors for LDS business.
IMHO, distributors should be offering incentives and kissing the a**es of LDSs that have to bend over backwards to sell their overpriced gear... not the other way around. If these distributors had any real competition, or if LDS owners had a collective voice, they would be kissing the a**es of the LDS owners.

Divers would be happy... significantly lower prices, yeah!!
LDSs would be happy... more control over how they run their own business...more cutomers...better cash flow, yeah!!
Manufacturers would not care as long as their total sales are up.
Distributors would not be happy...too bad.

 

[ninja]

Hey guys!

Most of you are approaching this from mostly one point of view.

Dive shops have overhead to keep ther doors open roughly 40%.
Than there is the profit factor of course and beleive me there is not huge money in the end as i work in store. Some of the guys on this thread say they will support the dive shop through other services offered but will buy gear online!!

When we run trips from our store we do not mark it up to our customers at a profit ocasionally the group leader will dive for free! NO MONEY IN THAT.

You say "I fill my tanks there" sorry but air is free not the compressor, labour, speciality lubricants, and the expensive filtration system,Not to mention the rebuilds on the compressor every few years. It cost roughly $4.35 Canadian to fill a tank we charge $5.00 HUGE PROFIT MARGIN!!

Most of these services are offered as convenience not for profit.

Most of our pricing for gear is 20 to 30% of mrsp makes us quite competative. Also give your shop a chance to match pricing....

Good Luck Guys!!

NINJA:ninja:

 

[flash]

I agree with Avi, "not at any price."

When your LDS gets mad because you're shopping around for the best price, that should be a real clue. If their prices had any basis in reality, you shopping wouldn't worry them at all. What are you really buying anyway, the best regulator at the best price or your LDS's friendship?

Times are changing and they will either adapt or they will disappear--if you think you are going to change that by overpaying for your gear, you are seriously mistaken. The fact is that LDS's no longer have a monopoly on your business. You can shop around now and you should.

As long as you are making an informed decision (considering things like warranties and servicing and sizing), there is no reason that price shouldn't be a primary consideration. The personalized attention and service you get at your LDS does have a value, I just don't think it's worth $300 extra for a regulator.

 

[ScubyDoo]

I really would like to buy all my gear from my LDS because I really do love them to death. They just charge to much money. I have purchased a large percentage of my gear online from DiveInn, DiversDirect, and Scubatoys. I havent been to Leisure Pro yet but need to check it out. I have purchased several items from my LDS like fins, boots, regulator, dive bag, and of course my classes, and a trip to Florida for my O/W cert dives. I plan to always get all my gear serviced there, as well as buy the little things there. Sometimes I feel guilty not supporting them more, but then I remember how much money I saved and my guilt complex quickly dissapates. I will be supporting my LDS for years to come so I feel like I will be doing my part to help them stay afloat. One thing I love about them is they will let me come by anytime I want and blow bubbles in thier indoor heated pool, so long as its not being used for classes or other events. Hard to beat that!!

 

[CAMPER]

New business model,

If I were a lds owner (God forbid) I would recommend to my customers to buy online, and even suggest those sites that are most reputable. I would then suggest that they bring the equipment to me and I would check it out for them and instruct them on its use for a small fee which would depend upon the item purchased. I probably would even go so far as to order it for him and have it delivered to the shop. This might raise a liability issue that would have to be looked at.

This approach would do a lot of stuff.
1) No inventory hassles the online people would carry that expensive inventory.

2) You have the opportunity to please the customer and make him feel safe. You are not alienating him wih this negative online stuff.

3) You have the opportunity to sell the dodads that you probably really make your money on. Clips, lights, masks, weight pouches etc.

4) If there is a problem you could organise the fix for him. I would consider this the ultimate customer service and would bond me to that lds forever.

The customer is always right, I just wish somebody in this industry would listen to them.

Ed B