The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[yknot]

The best solution to this debate I've heard may have been somewhere earlier in this thread but I'm not going to search thru 1000+ posts to find it. It is: buy everything on line and get the lowest possible price. Keep track of what you save in comparison to what your LDS is charging. At the end of the year, go write a check for the difference (or even half of the difference) and give it to your LDS. This way, you save money and also help keep that LDS open, being as some insist on supporting local business. This would also work out better for your LDS owner also.

 

[Deskjockey]

I finally got certified at one LDS because they were running a winter special for $199. I was so in love with diving after my first 2 pool dives that before I was even certified I wanted to (and they were willing to) sign up for AOW the weekend after I completed OW, then drysuit and nitrox the next weekend, and peak performance buoyancy the weekend after that. I was in the pool trying out gear before I completed OW. I was on a course to be a DM in 6 months. Then I found Scubaboard where y'all said "take it slow". I have since found another LDS where I go on dives for FREE. The owners are Tech and wreck divers and are always going to check out different gear configurations and I'm always welcome to tag along to work on my skills. I think they're in business so they can afford to dive. They all have real day jobs so the shop is only open afternoons and evenings. They also give helpful pointers for free. My other shop has a "rent-a-buddy" service. Big Difference. I plan to buy everything I need, except maybe stuff to make spring straps, etc from the new place.

 

[TravisT]

Okay, i know some people are going to have a field day with this as they are hardcore LDS buyer's. But i'm really frustrated right now. I'm in Oklahoma where there are not 30 dive shops. So this lowers the amount of competition in my area among the few dive shops. There, however is, a fairly large diving community in this state to my suprising.

I understand that LDS's have to bump up their prices a little bit over the internet pricing due to overhead expenses and things. But seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

I went to the LDS Friday, i've been in there 4-5 times. I have been comparing prices and there simply is no comparison.

Here are some of the things i've checked out:

Sherwood Wisdom Dive Computer:
Internet Price: $449.95
LDS Price: $850.00

Cressi-Sub Frog Fins Open Heel:
Internet Price: $49.95
LDS Price: $100.00

Cressi-Sub S-111 BCD:
Internet Price: $319.95
LDS Price: $499.99

Now tell me, why the heck would I EVER want to buy from a Dive Shop that has prices as ridiculous as that? And let me tell you before I get flak for this, that I DO want to buy from a LDS for warranty/repair issues. But why would I want to buy a Dive Computer that's marked up twice as much as it should be if mine ever breaks and loses it's warranty I can just buy another and probably save money on it by the time that comes around and prices go down?

This guy has a reputation of hating Internet stuff. There are rumors around that he has kicked people out of his store for buying stuff online and then bringing it in. You know, if you want people to buy from your store you have to be somewhat competitive. And this is not what I call competitive.

This guy isn't hurting for money either i'm sure. With 15 people or so lurking around in his shop last Friday I'm sure that he's making several hundred off each one of them if they buy anything from him.

Simply ridiculous in my opinion...

 

[oceancrest67]

You make some good points. I live just outside of DC and we have a large dive community as well as several local dive shops. I am quite loyal to the shop I dive with...I used to work there...I know the people...I have friends etc. I do understand the difference in pricing and the temptation to go online. I will stick with buying life supporting dive gear through a shop (with warranties, servicing etc). I have bought fins, suits, and other items online. I have heard of grey market items sold online...no warranties etc.

 

[nwdiver2]

We have a similar problem in Canada. For some reason the US manufacturers maintain Canadian distributors. We have free trade with the US and all US products are duty free, yet the products are sold to the distributors at wholesale then they mark them up to the retailer, so we see outrageous prices as everything has gone through an extra set of hands that have to make a living.

So many people have turned to the internet and cover their taxes when the shipment arrives in the country, usually within 4-5 days. The LDSs hate this but don’t tell Aqua-Lung and ScubaPro to wake up and ship from the plant directly to them. It is so stupid at times that you wait 2-3 months for something because it was not in Canada when the shop ordered it from the distributor and it had to work its way through the pre NAFTA system that still exists.

I have little sympathy for the LSDs as they could flat out tell the manufactures to spot this system but don’t so the customer suffers, now they suffer.

As a note there is a shop here that has several techs that are qualified to work on most gear. They won’t cover warranty items but welcome anyone with problems and access the parts they don’t have in hand. They would be called internet friendly.

 

[DORSETBOY]

good points but also worth bearing in mind volume of trade.. how much trade does this guy get? what are his costs / rent like? If he can do lots of business then he can get a good deal from dealers, if he cant then it's difficult for him to subsidise trade till he can build up numbers sufficiently.

I live up in Scotland and yet if I buy equipment I only do so when I fly back to Wales, that's cos I can go and buy equipment cheaper than anywhere else back home in Swansea in a dive shop called Days Diversified Services. Up here in Scotland Im looking at paying at least 20% more!!!! The choice of equipment is also the best Ive seen which is probably because the owners have an excellent reputation for fairness and for helping new divers make informed choices about the equipment they buy.

Greg Jenkins

 

[RDP]

I found myself in the some situation with the differential cost of equipment. There are only three dive shops in our area, and they all were extremely high compared to online. I try to buy from the LDS when I can. When an order costs $1000.00 less for the same new items?? I wonder what the owners of the LDS would do if this were car parts or ???

Not in this economy.

 

[TCDiver1]

Now tell me, why the heck would I EVER want to buy from a Dive Shop that has prices as ridiculous as that? And let me tell you before I get flak for this, that I DO want to buy from a LDS for warranty/repair issues. But why would I want to buy a Dive Computer that's marked up twice as much as it should be if mine ever breaks and loses it's warranty I can just buy another and probably save money on it by the time that comes around and prices go down?

Simply ridiculous in my opinion...

My question to you would be, what is a reasonable mark up? How did you come up with what is reasonable?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but IMO, few people understand what is really reasonable because few people truly understand what it costs to run a LDS. Heck, i know LDS owners who don't have a clue as to what the cost of doing business is.

I don't own a LDS nor am i defending them but am just pointing out it is hard to arrive at what a "reasonable" mark up is without knowing what their cost of doing business is.

I know in my business i just love it when my customers tell me what my mark ups should be when they have no clue as to what my costs are. Gotta love Capitalism.

 

[TravisT]

gedunk, I don't own a LDS but I do own a server company. I also understand and would be satisfied for a limited mark up. But I also know that a 100% mark-up on some items isn't necessary. And when your average mark up is over 80% then it's just to the point of ridiculous.

Here's a little idea: I rent high quality dedicated servers for $200.00 per month. If I can only put 1 customer on that machine, is it necessary for me to charge $400 for my box? It's simply not and if I want to stay competitive I have to drop my prices.

I'm sorry, but I flat out refuse to buy from this LDS as he's already ripped me off on the fins, mask, and snorkel where we thought we were getting a 20% discount, we were actually sticking $200.00 in his pocket and he could do it with a smile.

To be competitive you have to have competitive prices, and he does not. By looking around I know that he is marking his prices up, that doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But like i said, 100% mark-up's is absurd.

 

[MikeFerrara]

We have a similar problem in Canada. For some reason the US manufacturers maintain Canadian distributors. We have free trade with the US and all US products are duty free, yet the products are sold to the distributors at wholesale then they mark them up to the retailer, so we see outrageous prices as everything has gone through an extra set of hands that have to make a living.

So many people have turned to the internet and cover their taxes when the shipment arrives in the country, usually within 4-5 days. The LDSs hate this but don’t tell Aqua-Lung and ScubaPro to wake up and ship from the plant directly to them. It is so stupid at times that you wait 2-3 months for something because it was not in Canada when the shop ordered it from the distributor and it had to work its way through the pre NAFTA system that still exists.

I have little sympathy for the LSDs as they could flat out tell the manufactures to spot this system but don’t so the customer suffers, now they suffer.

As a note there is a shop here that has several techs that are qualified to work on most gear. They won’t cover warranty items but welcome anyone with problems and access the parts they don’t have in hand. They would be called internet friendly.

In the US, most manufacturers supply direct to the dive shop and there isn't a distributor. There are pricing rules that will cause a shop to loose a dealership if they don't follow.

Also, after owning a dive shop for about 4 years I can tell you that a shop doesn't TELL the manufacturers anything at all. They tell the shop how things are going to be and if the shop doesn't like it they get told to go scratch. Period. No discussion and no negotiation. You do as you're told or you're out.

Personally i'll buy all my equipment someplace other than a dive shop because the manufacturers won't get it untill all the shops get it and make demands at once.

I won't spend a single nickle to encourage current industry practices.