The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[5615mike]

emmagee

Do a search on this board for online purchase, or LP or LDSvsLP. There are so many posts on this I think it rivals only the questions about DO and Rest in Coz.

Why do you think there are so many LDS going out of business? They just can't compete on price. Mike is a perfect example and he is probably going to have personal experience with this very subject.

I saved about $1250 for my wifes gear and mine over the LDS. Gave them a chance but that was the closest they could get..........sorry but my money is hard earned and I am not going to waste it.

If some LDS says they won't service gear that is not bought from them as suggested in an earlier thread. Don't look for them to be around long either. What happens to somebody who just moves to town or moves Dive Shops because they no longer like them or more appropriately.......they go OOB.......are they going to give them the 50 questions before they agree to provide service? That's rediculous.

Until Mfg's allow LDS to discount products, they are going to have a very difficult time staying in business. I wonder as a percentage, how many LDS are no longer in business vs..........say 5 years ago?

 

[ScoobieDooo]

Its sad, because I hate to buy mail order when I could be supporting a LDS. I do, but the fact is I probably saved $2000-3000 on my gear than if I bought locally.

Sad, but true. Manufacturers better start looking at this trend or else there won't BE any more LDS's left to SELL their wares.

 

[5615mike]

NO

 

[medical1]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
Its sad, because I hate to buy mail order when I could be supporting a LDS. I do, but the fact is I probably saved $2000-3000 on my gear than if I bought locally.

I feel bad about buying on the internet and buy from my LDS when were not talking about a whole chunk of money difference.

I'd feel REALLY bad buying from my LDS and paying $2000-$3000 more!

When did the LDS take care of my family when I was sick, or cloth my kid, or buy me dinner?

Would you feel this loyalty to a restaurant that serves McDonalds style food but charges steak house prices?

Where is the LDS loyalty to me? I'm the little guy supporting them

 

[McCartyGirl]

I did purchase my snorkel, mask, fins and boots from the LDS. I wouldn't think of purchasing the fins or BC anywhere but there because I have to try them on. I just have a hard time spending an extra $100-$200 on a regulator at the LDS vs. online. I appreciate all feedback I can get. I will probably just end up buying the reg and bc at my LDS. They're friendly and very helpful.

 

[Detonate]

5615mike once bubbled...
Why do you think there are so many LDS going out of business?

DING DING DING!!! This is probably the most important bit said in this thread.

LDS provide training. Training means more divers. More divers means more business

If LDS goes out of business, we get less divers, people sell less gear, online shops slow down.

It's a vicious cycle.

My advice remains firm. I have nothing against buying online, just give your LDS a chance at your business. Take the check-out print out to your LDS and see if they can match it.

If you are talking about 1 ScubaPro Regulator, forget it. LDS can't compete. But if you are talking about a package deal, then the LDS can aggressivly compete.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The dive shops are not going to work together to get a handle on the manufacturers or form a buying co-op. They don't talk. they don't think. They just do what the manufacturers tell them.

BTW, any one here ever see a dealer agreement from one of the major manufacturer? Did you see any language in it that suggested that the manufacturer thought of the LDS as customer or treated them like one? You didn't.

The LDS, plain and simple, is treated like and plays the role of an employee of the manufacturer. The agreement language is you will do this. You will do that. We retain the right to dump you at anytime for any reason.

Any shop who is making ends meet selling equipment from the major manufacturers isn't going to do anything to jeperdise their standing. they can put you out of business in a heart beat.

Heres something else to consider...Most dive shop employees do things and think the way they were trained to. The same is true for the lousy training. Do you think it's an accident that training and equipment sales are so closely tied together and that you can't sell equipment from the major manufacturers unless you provide training anf air or that often trianing is given away to sell equipment. Do we know of some one who ran a large training agancy and was also pres of one of the biggest equipment manufacturers? This is where the system was designed. It's been this way for a long time. The only difference now is that not too many years ago there wasn't anyplace other than the LDS to get equipment so they had a nice neat little package complete with entry barriers to others entering the market. Entry barriers in the form of openning order and anual sales requirements and refusing to take on a new dealer if there was already one in the area.

 

[Genesis]

My advice remains firm. I have nothing against buying online, just give your LDS a chance at your business. Take the check-out print out to your LDS and see if they can match it.

I should not have to beat a merchant over the head to get a decent price.

Post the price you want to sell for on the shelf.

If you post a price that is double that of the other sellers, you won't even get the attempt from me. You've made clear that one of two things applies to you:

1. You have no intention of meeting or even getting close to what I can buy it for elsewhere, and I'm wasting my time (and gasoline) driving over there to attempt it.

OR

2. Worse, you are willing to screw those who will buy without donig any market research, but you'll be "nice" to me - maybe, if you like me, if I refer people to you, if I do other things (some of which you might tell me, others which you probably won't)

I shop for many things at WalMart because I know EXACTLY what the price is, and that both I and the guy in front of and behind me will be paying the same amount for the same product.

There is value in that - at least there is for me.

Put your best price out there. That's my advice.

The dive shops are not going to work together to get a handle on the manufacturers or form a buying co-op. They don't talk. they don't think. They just do what the manufacturers tell them.

Then they will die. They deserve to die. You do not have a right to remain in business, and if you will not put effort into your business, you deserve to take a dirt nap.

BTW, any one here ever see a dealer agreement from one of the major manufacturer? Did you see any language in it that suggested that the manufacturer thought of the LDS as customer or treated them like one? You didn't.

Yes, I've seen them, and you're exactly right.

I would never sign such a document.

 

[medical1]

Detonate once bubbled...
Snip
DING DING DING!!! This is probably the most important bit said in this thread.

LDS provide training. Training means more divers. More divers means more business.

The LDS charge for training - not like there doing it for no cost or profit

Detonate once bubbled...
Snip
My advice remains firm. I have nothing against buying online, just give your LDS a chance at your business. Take the check-out print out to your LDS and see if they can match it.

If you are talking about 1 ScubaPro Regulator, forget it. LDS can't compete. But if you are talking about a package deal, then the LDS can aggressivly compete.

I have always tried to give my LDS the ability to compete with the price I could buy it for elsewhere BEFORE I BUY. If they can even come close or shave off a few dollars I would rather buy from the LDS.

You talk about the poor LDS - what about the poor consumers - don't we count?????

Has everyone forgotten this is America? Land of free trade. If the industry is flawed then fix it, or find a work around - just don't expect me to pay through ther nose while your fixing it.

Looks like a lot of consumers have found a work around and a lot of dive shops are loosing money. It's called educated consumers who shop for price not just lip service about why you should spend $200 more at the LDS.

A fool and his money are soon parted & my father didn't raise a fool.

 

[MikeFerrara]

A dive shops best price isn't good enough for a diver who knows what's going on.

The fact is that the dive shops making the most money stick to MSRP and just crank out enough dumb noobies and settle for selling to them once. That IS the dive business. If LP is selling rangers for $385 there is no sense in me posting a price because I can't touch it. However if I can certify 400 OW students per year I can get a bunch sold to them for retail which is $679. At $389 I have to sell SEVEN times as many. Since most equipment is sold locally to recent OW students that is the market. Since we can't go online and we are going to only sell to the portion of our students who wish to own equipment the market is nearly fixed if you rely on walk in. In general the only divers in my town who want equipment and don't already have it are the ones I just certified. Only some of them have any intention of ever owning equipment. That's the size of the market. It doesn't matter how cheap I sell, I just can't sell any more than that. With the above numbers I now must certify 2800 divers to make the same equipment sales. ok so maybe I sold to a few straglers who walked in or one or two of last years students who decided to buy but that's peanuts compared to the cost of certifying 2800 divers.

Recently, our shop had to toss out all the rules just to get by. We managed to sell more (in volume) in the last few months than we had in the last two years. It was still break even. Actually less because although we paid the bills there wasn't money to replace stock. Volume did not increase anywhere near enough to make up for the cut in margin. When the rent was paid and the walls were empty the next decision seemed a no-brainer.

The dive industry is giving you folks to LP. They really don't care. The real equipment market is new divers. I've had this argument with the manufacturers a thousand times. They know what LP's market share is and they aren't willing to change to get it. As long as there are enough shop who will entice buyers with cheap classes and sell them junk before they know better nobody cares about the tiny few smart ones. The shops that play the game well are making money.