The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[jrg]

There's nothing wrong with buying gear online. If your LDS ever berates you about it when you "show up with new gear", they don't deserve your business anyway.

 

[Longhorn]

Hello Mike

For products that you do not carry, have you ever thought of telling a customer to purchase on-line and charging that individual to set up the equipment and make sure it is working properly. That allows you to get around the price fixing problems with the manufacturers, increase your virtual inventory, and allows you to make a profit on the sales. The customer gets the equipment she/he wants and still saves some money. I would have paid for this service just to support a local shop. Does anybody do this? The LDS that carried the regs I wanted to purchase was more interested in telling me all the different ways I was going to get screwed buying on-line than trying to work a deal that was close to the on-line purchase price (I would have paid more but not 50%-75% more).

 

[MikeFerrara]

Longhorn once bubbled...
Hello Mike

For products that you do not carry, have you ever thought of telling a customer to purchase on-line and charging that individual to set up the equipment and make sure it is working properly. That allows you to get around the price fixing problems with the manufacturers, increase your virtual inventory, and allows you to make a profit on the sales. The customer gets the equipment she/he wants and still saves some money. I would have paid for this service just to support a local shop. Does anybody do this? The LDS that carried the regs I wanted to purchase was more interested in telling me all the different ways I was going to get screwed buying on-line than trying to work a deal that was close to the on-line purchase price (I would have paid more but not 50%-75% more).

Actually we did something like this just recently. A customer wnated a cressi mask in a color we didn't have. My wife called to order the mask and they told her that they wouldn't sell it to us unless we placed a $1000 order to bring us up to where we should be for the year. My wife went online and saw that we could buy it from LP for just a few dollars more than what it cost us right from the manufacturer. We called the customer and explained the situation and told where we could get it. She told us to go ahead with it. So, we bought it from LP, marked it up a little and gave cressi some suggestions as to what they could spend the afternoon doing with themselves. LOL

 

[medical1]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

Manufacturers tell the dive shop what they can charge. They tell them what they can advertise. They tell them that they need to be a full service dive shop offering training, air and service in a retail location with inventory on display before they can even be a dealer. They also tell you how much you must sell in a year and how much it'll cost to buy your dealership. In some cases they even tell what other brands and how much of it you can stock. They also tell you where you can sell. Many manufacturers still will not permit online or mailorder sales. I guess it cost me in the neighborhood of 50k to sell my first reg. As you can see many of these policies limit sales vulume by limiting product selection and the target market. If you can only afford to carry a few brands and you can only sell to walk-in customers your volume will be low but your overhead remains high. the manufacturers leave one little choice. The price simply is what it is.

I just closed my dive shop and moved everything into my house. A few manufacturers have agreed to continue to do business with me but most have told me to go jump. I have everything at my home that I had at the shop and can offer all the same services yet most won't sell to me. With less overhead I don't need as much volume to cover costs and can offer a better price. If you really want to make a statement buy from the manufacturers who allow one to offer better prices and services through being more efficient and buy those products from some one who is doing it out in the open, like me.

I'm trying hard to stick it to some of them but I want to do it in their face not in an alley like some of the non-dealer online merchants. If you ask me where my stuff comes from I'll tell you. If you ask some of the non-dealer online merchants where there stuff comes from you won't get an answer.

I can only speak for myself but I for one sure as hell never asked you to bail me out. I have asked that folks make an effort to understand what's really going on in this screwed up industry but I haven't made much progress.

Mike
I DO sympathize with you but lets call an Orange an Orange.
Example Dive Alert Surface Signal
Dealer price for 4 or more $25.00 (Less if bought in quantity) / LDS $75 (Another dive shop wanted $95) / Markup 200% +

Don’t get me started with the markup LDS use with Submersible System Inc, & Sevlor products not to mention the Equipment manufacturers.
Does the name Trident or Underwater Diving Inc out of Chatsworth, CA ring a bell? :mean:

I have no problem with a business trying to make a profit and covering there overhead but a markup of 200%? I also have a problem with a business thinking I owe them something without earning it. When LeisurePro is selling a Zeagle Ranger for $389.95 (+ making a profit) and my LDS will not give me a break on price and wants me to pay $689.95 guess where I will shop?

Sorry but the money I save I get to spend on my family or on dive trips that I buy from my LDS. Simple economics.

If a LDS is willing to work with me I would MUCH rather buy there. On the other hand – it’s not my job to put the LDS kids through college or help him buy a bigger house or boat with EVERY purchase.

Not being harsh – so please don’t take offense.

“This is just my opinion – I could be wrong / Dennis Miller”

 

[MikeFerrara]

docmartin once bubbled...
pasley, regarding your 10 points: leisure pro has all these costs, too. after all they are not just an online company but a dive store with the most incredible in-stock selection, good customer service and sales people that are more knowledgeable than in 90% of the dive stores i've been to. they are also less inclined to push a certain brand and we all know about the price. tough to beat.

No they don't have all the same costs as a dive shop nor the liability or the insurance that goes with it. The don't maintain a compressor, they don't have to teach or buy UW liability insurance and they don't have all the restrictions the manufacturers place on a dive shop.

As far as feeling guilty, of course you shouldn't. However, if you do wan to do something for the shop, try to understand what the real situation is and what it is not. It is not the shop just wanting to charge twice what LP does. Tell them your opinion of it and let them take your complaints back to the manufacturers. Then buy wherever it makes the most sense to buy.

I just closed my shop so I can deal with the manufacturers and customers that I want. Without the overhead I can make those kinds of decissions. For the products I can't get from a manufacturer I likely won't be going to a dive shop. However there are a few shop owners that I've known for a while and if they'll work with me, I'll work with them. Of course I still have my compressor, mixing equipment and all the other goodies so there isn't much I need a shop for.

SeaJay,

An informed consumer is not the worst kind of customer. They're the best. They are also very rare. They are by far the easiest to deal with. They know what they want and why and what they're willing to pay. They either buy it or they don't they don't keep changing their mind about what they want or what color. They just buy it and don't bring it back. I've ghad divers wear out three pairs of fins and two bc's before finally deciding what they want. Those are the worst kind of customer. The second wort kind is the customer who thinks they're well informed but don't know anything at all. I still have nightmares about some of those.

 

[MikeFerrara]

medical1 once bubbled...


Mike
I DO sympathize with you but lets call an Orange an Orange.
Example Dive Alert Surface Signal
Dealer price for 4 or more $25.00 (Less if bought in quantity) / LDS $75 (Another dive shop wanted $95) / Markup 200% +

Don’t get me started with the markup LDS use with Submersible System Inc, & Sevlor products not to mention the Equipment manufacturers.
Does the name Trident or Underwater Diving Inc out of Chatsworth, CA ring a bell? :mean:

We used to get stuff from trident but, now, without a (what they call a store) they'll no longer sell to us. Tridents doesn't even have a MSRP. You are free to mark their stuff as little or as much as you want so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I have no problem with a business trying to make a profit and covering there overhead but a markup of 200%? I also have a problem with a business thinking I owe them something without earning it. When LeisurePro is selling a Zeagle Ranger for $389.95 and my LDS will not give me a break on price and wants me to pay $689.95 guess where I will shop.

We haven't ever had a %200 markup on anything. Certainly none of the equipment manufacturers build that much into their MSRP. A zeagle ranger costs me $340. MSRP is $679. There just isn't any way any shop could survive selling them for $389. Aside from that though Zeagle does restrict what the shop can sell for.

Sorry but the money I save I get to spend on my family or on dive trips that I buy from my LDS. Simple economics. If a LDS is willing to work with me I would MUCH rather buy there. On the other hand – it’s not my job to put the LDS kids through college or help him buy a bigger house or boat with EVERY purchase.

Not being harsh – so please don’t take offense.

“This is just my opinion – I could be wrong / Dennis Miller”

No offense taken. Certainly every one should do what makes sense but please don't let the manufacturers off the hook. They suck. BTW, nobody has to worry about sending my kids to school because after owning a dive shop for 3 1/2 years they'll need to pay for their own school.

 

[Genesis]

No offense taken. Certainly every one should do what makes sense but please don't let the manufacturers off the hook. They suck.

.... letting any of the co-conspirators off the hook.

That includes the manufacturers and MOST LDS owners...

You would be an exception, at least now Mike

 

[sheck33]

sasdasdaf once bubbled...
When I find a dive shop that has employees that actually give good advice, I will be happy to pay a little more to compensate for that extra service. Until then, I will continue to buy online.

It boggles my mind that my LDS should get pissed off if I buy gear from elsewhere... after all, shouldn't I pay 50% more than I have to just to patronize my LDS? Give me a break.

Your LDS will sell you whatever they are dealers for and will sell according to the manufacturer's set prices. I get more choice online and can get the same items for less, so why should I buy locally?

The only thing my LDS is good for is filling tanks, and they can't even do that properly.

you are right, the level of un-professionalism one encounters in most diveshops is mindboggling. i have been harassed for buying gear the LDS doesnt even sell!!!! i was supposed to have bought something 'similar' in the LDS rather than buying the gear that i wanted elsewhere. it is insane.
i have only been in one diveshop so far that has not shown the usual level of unprofessional behaviour and i will do best best to avoid all other LDS's like the plague

 

[McCartyGirl]

I am new to scuba, I'm taking the classes currently and will be doing my OW soon. I have started looking at equipment and have a general idea of what regulator, BC and computer I want. My dive shop has said not to buy online, even though cheaper, the manufacturer's don't honor the warranties. Is this true or is it okay to buy online from reputable online companies? The prices are often a lot lower than that at the dive shop I go to.

Thanks!

 

[medical1]

You might want to check out the thread " Why the HUGE $$ difference between LDS & online?"