The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[lildiver]

I have to agree with those that say buying scuba equipment on line is not the best of ideas. I want to inspect what I'm buying, try it on and try it out in the pool if at all possible. I want to know that the gear will fit me and perform the way I need it to. When it comes to life support under water, I don't think we can be to careful. There maybe some items, such as bags, or underwater cameras/housing and such that would be ok to purchace via the net. That's just my $.02's worth.
~lildiver

 

[crabman]

My .03 cents worth. In the last three weeks I have bought 2 wetsuits. One online and one at the local dive shop. The 6.5 mil online got to me fast and it's a great suit. The 2.5 mil Parkway T1 was at the local dive shop. Some local dive shops have their own websites and have web specials to compete with the web. Saved lots of dollars on both. For the air you breath, definitely your local dive shops can support your purchases better. Usually if they know you have been price shopping, they can cut a deal and stand by their product too.

 

[scubarick]

I regards to purchasing dive gear online, I have done it and had good and bad results. I've delt with Performance diver and gotten some great stuff. It's mostly accesories and gee whiz stuff. However, putting hands on your BC,Reg and such is a better idea. I purchased a BC,1st Stage,2nd Stage and computer in a package deal through Aafes which is a Military catalog sales open only to US military and there dependants. It is US Divers gear so it's not bad but had I to do over again I would have prefered to try things on first. So take it for what it's worth. I was in a place(Korea)where I couldn't get gear any other way so it worked for me...sort of.

 

[mattiedread]

I asked the same thing, online vs. LDS on this forum several months ago, prior to purchasing any gear. Leisure Pro is a twenty minute subway ride for me, my local dive shop is about the same, maybe a little longer because parking in Hoboken can be a nightmare.

I took the advice of not purchasing BC, Reg and computer from LeisurePro (specifically LeisurePro, because I could go in and kick the tires). Other than the advice I got off this board, I had a couple experiences when visitting LP that stirred some concern. Now, keep in mind, I have bought a fair amount of things from LP (walk in, not online), but things like UK lights (which, comes with the manufactures warranty), fins, clips, a dive bag, etc.

This is what stirred my concerns:
The guys at LP are all very nice and helpful. But, ask them if they dive. The answer will be "Once, in the Florida Keys" or "No". They are not divers, they are discount retail. They have all been to Israel, but none have been diving in the Red Sea.

Although I had a similar experience there in February, I had this one a couple of weeks ago while buying a hooded vest for a trip to some colder water. Two of the customers in LP were from Minn. and had been diving cold water for years (10+ each). They had never seen prices so low on specific equipment as they had at LP. The one gentleman had come to purchase a reg, swore it was too cheap and left without buying it... but he purchased some stuff while he was there. It was kind of an endorsement. Both these guys were very friendly and answered all my questions. Neither purchased regulators.

As stated above, LP doesn't offer a manufacture's warranty on some of the things they sell, but rather an LP warranty which "is the same".

Last February when I posted my question somebody replied with a link to a manufacturer. Stated right on top of the manufacturers page, in bold italics was:

"Liesure Pro is not an authorized dealer of XYZ Corp."
Although, LP carries a full line of their stuff... How?

I asked my local dive shop manager (who certified me... to dive that is and he told me:
LP calls dive shops that keep small inventories and offers to buy quantity through them so both stores can receive the volume discount." This is apparently why the warranties aren't honored. Supposedly they also call dive shops that are going out of business and offer to buy their inventory. Sound business practice for their business model, but buying "Life Support" equipment under such a guise worried me.

That being said. My local dive shop. I purchased our regs, BCs, my computer and a custom mask from my LDS. I'll probably purchase a second computer (although they only carry Suunto) and a pony from them in the next few months.

Immediately before a dive in Dos Ojos Cenote, a pin fell out of my Octo and my Octo began to free flow (still on land). Nobody had ever seen this happen before, and the 'gear technitians' at the dive operator 'fixed it'. (I didn't go below 45 feet the rest of the trip, all OW dives) After the trip I took it to my dive shop, they expressed intense concern, and gave the reg a full once over right there. (Hoboken Dive, http://www.gohdc.com). They removed the pin, checked what held it, compared the spring pressure to a reg etc. When they were done, they showed me my Octo next to an out of the box one. They looked the same. Hooked it up to air, appearred fine. I don't think you can get that type of service from an online retailer, certainly not the face to face, which, quelled my fears.

When I we went to the Galapagos, a little plastic piece fell off one of our BCs... it looks important (we both have Sea Quests, and the piece says SeaQuest.. we don't know where it came from). It looks important, but we spent an hour looking for where it could have come from. Once we determined that it wasn't preventing inflation/deflation, we continuted to dive. I haven't brought the BCs or the piece in, but I'll bet they service it immediately for free.

My wife's custom mask lens (magnifying, not perscription) began leaking after about 10 dives even though they tested the mask. Again, I'm sure they 'll fix it when I bring it in this weekend.

The service, long term relationship is what I'm paying for. They know I bought wetsuits from LP (they didn't have the inventory that LP did and LP was $100 cheaper/suit), but they know we'll keep coming to them for equipment, training, travel advice and possibly a dive vacation.

There are just some things I'm willing to lay out the extra cash for safety/peace of mind. Look at HMOs, they are relatively inexpensive, but they are also the 'get sick and die' plan.

 

[kauai_diver]

I sent Leisure pro an email and asked about warranties if I were to buy something from them, this is what Sol sent me:

Any Product purchased from " Leisure Pro" will have the same warranty as if purchased through a Traditional Dive Center.

Many Local Dive Shops seem to be advising customers that they will not preform warranty repairs on items purchased from Mail Order, Web Sites. It also seems that some manufacturers are advising Dive Shops to tell customers this. This appears to be a form of damage control from the manufacturers due to the numerous complaints they have received from Dive Shops that don't want competition. In my opinion, this is a poor example of business practices.

If you are considering making a purchase from us "Leisure Pro" you should be prepared, if needed, to return a defective item to us for repair or replacement. You should also be prepared to return items that require annual overhauls to us for service if you expect to receive the parts at no Charge.

What Does the Manufacturer's Warranty Really Cover?
Each Manufacturer offers a slightly different warranty on their Products. These warranties also vary by the type of Product. The following is a list of facts that apply to most Scuba Manufacturers Warranties:

* Coverage only applies to parts, not labor. our Labor Charge is $39.95 For reg, octo, gauges (computers) Compare it to your local shop.

* Coverage to parts may be limited only to items needed in a "normal annual service".
* In order to maintain a product's Warranty, it must be serviced annually. Should you be late or miss a year (maybe you were not diving for a period of time) the warranty is voided.

* Limited Lifetime warranties do not define "Lifetime"

*Warranties only provide coverage for "Defects in material and or Workmanship".

* Warranties do not cover accidental damage, i.e.: tears or punctures in materials or stitching from rubbing up against a wreck or coral on the reef, flooding of the regulator, not rinsing equipment, etc.

* Warranties exclude coverage for wear items such as hoses, mouthpieces, batteries, etc.

If you have any more questions call me toll free 1-800-637-6880 and ask for Sol x 315

 

[DoubleBubbles]

I have read with great interest the debate of buying from a LDS versus buying online. I have also read the statements from different manufacturers of equipment about buying only from authorized dealers, and how they do not support online sales. I have looked at leisurepro.com and diveinn.com and see they both sell ScubaPro; at prices far far better than my LDS. My question is if anyone out here has had any trouble getting their ScubaPro gear serviced after purchasing from either of these stores. I hear about how your warranty is no good if you buy ScubaPro online, and am trying to sort out all the conflicting crap before I lay my money down.

 

[Zagnut]

When I was studying up before I made my big scuba gear purchases, I had the same questions/worries. Now that I have my setup (which I bought locally), I've thought to myself that If I were to ever purchace a backup piece of gear, like a different set of regs, for example, I don't think I would be so worried about the warranty issue involved with buying online. I would stick to a quality piece of gear and the prices are so cheap that it wouldn't be that great of a gamble(with items that have a limited warranty, like regs). I have wondered about being able to get them serviced, though. I don't think I would want to send them off for servicing and I know some LDS owners can get a chip on their shoulder about servicing gear purchased online. Personally, I can see their beef in some ways, but not totally because I would still be paying them for the servicing. They are still making their money on the service, and after the extensive shopping around that I did to purchase my setup, I have come to the conclusion that some of the LDS owners are kind of shysters(like car salesmen or something). You know the type, the kind that say,"the stuff I sell is great, all other equipment is crap!" and then jack the prices up. I'm wondering if I could just say I bought it used from someone I know or something and get them to service it that way? I'm glad I purchased my primary gear setup locally because if there is ever a problem, they are right there. If, on the other hand, it was a backup piece of equipment, it might not bother me so much that I didn't get it locally(as long as I could get it serviced).

 

[DoubleBubbles]

Basically my LDS has said he would refuse to service equipment he knew was bought online. I think he is cutting his own throat since online shopping is here to stay, and is going to become bigger as time goes on. Manufacturers like ScubaPro and DiveRite both make big issues out of buying at an authorized (read not selling online) dealer which also allows them to do a bit of price fixing IMHO. In fact if you go to DiveRite's website they actually list Leisurepro.com as NOT being an authorized dealer (see http://www.diverite.com/dealers/start/warning.htm . This just leads me to wonder some more about where or how then DiveRite equipment ends up being sold by them? I am not saying that LesiurePro is not authorized; in fact from what I have read, most folks seem to be very pleased with them. I am just repeating what DiveRite is saying. I just want to make sure if I pluck my money down with online retailers that I am getting the real product, and can get it serviced somewhere.

 

[TexasMike]

Being one of Zagnut's dive buddies, I too have been to some of the shops that he researched when purchasing his gear. And I know about some of the other shops that he didn't visit.

I agree with your statement that refusing to service gear bought online is a very bad attitude. Would be similar to a car dealership refusing to service your car because you purchased it through a brokerage service and another dealership.

In my small biz, I don't care where the customer originally did business. If I can provide them excellent service to solve thier current problem, then I might have earned a new customer who will do future purchases at my shop. AND I win the business of all the people that that individual knows since he will recommend me.

So what if you purchased it online. From what I understand, mainline gear has a very small profit margin. It's the accessories that provide the larger profits. So if the LDS pleasantly assisted you with service, you are more likely to return and purchase the high profit items. Being antagonistic will not only lose your business, but every diver you know in the local area that you talk to.

--TexasMike

 

[TexasMike]

Now for another side of the coin....

It has been my experience that even though you spend more dollars buying from the LDS you will very likely make this extra expense up through discounts and freebies.

As an example, I purchased all my main gear all at once from the LDS. Since then, I now qualify for a 10-15% discount on all purchases, and I have already receivied several freebies including gear service, air fills, and tank rentals. A quick sum shows I've received over $300 in savings. And this will continue to grow.

And, more than once, I've been able to borrow an item I was interested in and dive with it (often it was the personal item of the shop owner) to see if I like it. This weekend I get to try out the Mares Volo fins.

If I had purchased my gear online, I would not have had the opportunity to avail myself of these perks.

So be sure to include this in your cogitation as you think about buying gear.