The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[bradymsu]

Sure buff, buying online is a great way to go if you don't mind putting your local dive shop out of business. I have yet to find a place to get a convenient air fill online. Also as mentioned before, you can't expect a local dive shop to match internet prices. Most manufacturers won't allow an authorized dealer to set retail prices that low. Even if they were allowed to, the difference in the amount of gear sold in all but the largest cities would make a business go under. It's real easy to think your local dive shop is ripping you off until you've seen their books. For most shop owners like small farmers, it's a labor of love, not of high profit.

The bottom line is that buying online will save you several hundred dollars now but you can't pretend there aren't long term consequences for both you as an individual diver and for your local dive community.

 

[buff]

Then they should charge more in another area like air fill or service. I do think there are alot of new divers out there who need the advice of a local dive shop-sad but true. I am not one of them. I know the employees at the local shop quite well, and they know I buy online-I told them that. However, I am going on a number of dives with(that I pay them quite well for) them and as much as hate it I do buy quite a bit of "accessory items" at the dive shop which actually cost me quite a bit of change. If you need their expertise(and that's pretty much of just an opinion of what each person in the store likes-I asked 3 different sales people about a dry suit and got 3 different answers as to which one to buy) then go to the dive shop and pay the "fee"-otherwise buy online.
Maybe dive shops should charge more for air fills and service??? The internet has allowed me to buy the gear I have always dreamed of having....any diver would be quite envious of my dive equipment. I would have not been able to purchase this level of equipment from a dive shop-it would have cost me double. Perhaps the internet will break down the price barriers for new divers to own equipment.... more divers means more demand for service and air fills...and the dive shops could charge more in these areas. In addition, more divers results in a bigger political lobby to keep lakes and oceans "diver safe" and "diver open" and preserve the earth's diving environment.
I don't know if manufactureres can set a certain price-I thought that was illegal(perhaps they can imply that you have sell at a set price-or else) besides who does that help??? just the giants i.e. Auqalung, Mares etc. I be they NEVER give a dive shop a price break because they "serve the local diving community"
I also don't know why dive equipment is sssooo much cheaper in Europe than here but my guess is that there is more competition.
And as far as air fills go...it's no rocket science work, I've done tougher stuff in my organic chemistry lab...maybe I'll just BUY a compressor with my dive friends and we'll have that solved too.

Sorry this is so long......

 

[Warhammer]

Originally posted by kcbdiver
Leisurepro contacts stores that are going out of business. They buy the excess inventory at low prices, but are not authorized dealers.

I'm sure they may get some of their gear that way, but it just simply isn't possible for them to get it all that way. No way they could maintain their inventory like that.

Another way that they get the inventory is by calling dive shops and giving them monetary incentive to purchase the gear in large quantities. Dive shops go along with this in some cases to their detrement because individuals choose to shop online and the dive shops need to make the bills for that month.

Nope, most all manufactors that have the warranty/online limitations audit their dealers periodically to prevent this. A retail dealer can't sell the gear in any other fashion other than in-person in-store sales. If they do then they risk getting their dealership revoked. So if they sold large quanities of gear to Leisure Pro, the manufactor would want to know where that gear went.

The most likely source for Leisure Pro's inventory is the manufactor themselves. There in the business to make money and there is plenty of money to be made on the internet, so why would they pass that opportunity up? They don't. It's a sweet deal for the manufactor, they sell large quanities of gear to places like Leisure Pro and don't even have to honor a warranty.

The computer industry works the same way and they play the same game. You have OEM(Original Equipment Manufactor) parts and you have retail parts. You, as a consumer, aren't suppose to be able to get OEM parts in any way other than in a complete system that you buy from someone like Gateway. But the truth is you can buy them all day long on the internet for sometimes half as much as their retail twins. The manufactor won't warranty them, but the place you bought them from will. Same game, different industry.

 

[buff]

I do believe Warhammer is correct.
The equipment I have bought online looks, feels and smells(mmmm...the smell of neoprene or high quiality rubber-Is it just me or is the smell of Poseidon rubber pure heaven??) like brand new. There is not a fngerprint on it. No dents, scratches or bruises. I asked DiveInn(in Spain) and they said they order directly from the manufacturer.
The warrior goes on to draw similarites between the computer industry and the dive industry. I have a CDRW that is made by yamaha(it doesn't say it on the box but when the computer boots up that's what it recognizes it as) for about one third that I would pay to have that name on the box.
Now, why is dive equipment cheaper in Europe???

 

[kcbdiver]

While some things may be cheaper in Europe, other things are not. My local dive store (I work for them sometimes) has been contacted several times about Ikelite Video Housing particularly from Sweden and England. It appears that dealers in these countries are attempting to gouge the overseas community by charging outrageously high prices. We contacted Ikelite and they were appauled at the price gouging going on overseas, especially because the dealers there pay the same amount in U.S. dollars as we do here (holding the conversion rate constant). Even so, it cannot cost $500-$600 more for shipping overseas.

As for equipment being cheaper overseas, dealers such as Mares, Aqua Lung, and others have a home base there, so the majority of equipment being distributed is larger over more area, allowing for a greater discount.

Dealers such as Aqua Lung and Seaquest dictate that we cannot sell over the internet even as an authorized dealer and also that we cannot advertise below retail except for in our store. Other dealers such as Tusa could care less about who's selling what.

Air Fills are a loss leader. It costs more in electricity, time etc. to run the compressor to fill the storage banks than the $3.50 we charge for an air fill. If we charged $10.00 for an air fill and another store only charges $2.50, who will get the business?

One more point, can you share your diving experiences with an internet store where you placed your equipment order?

Sorry this is so long.

 

[TexasMike]

I recently placed an order with Leisure Pro for a TX50 Octo, and a UK D8 dive light by calling them, and ordered a safety sausage, whistle, and "Laser" light stick via their website.

The items that arrived are all in new condition, in original packaging. The TX50 did not have any scratches or other signs of use/wear on it, and is currently at the LDS with the rest of my gear being tweaked.

Their shipping was via 3 day air and economical for the items ordered ($8.00 per order). And from what I've gotten so far, I'm happy with my purchase.

Would I buy from them again? Probably, but mostly for "accessory" items. Life support things I plan on getting at the LDS.

 

[kcbdiver]

You see, it all comes back to the LDS. Are they charging you for the tweaking?

I checked Leisure Pro's website and the accessories they offer are comparable if not more expensive than our LDS both on the internet and in the store. Don't believe me, check it out at http://www.thescubaco.net.

 

[buff]

Local dive shop $499.00 for the Apeks TX50-diveinn.com $319.00 for the TX50 regulator and TX40 octopus. Of course that doesn't include "tweaking".......I did get my power inflator replaced on my BC and that was just double what I would pay to do it myself.......but I got to talk to my old dive instructor and it was worth it.

 

[bradymsu]

The facts behind the internet vs. local dive shop issue aren't all that complicated.

#1. You can save yourself hundreds of dollars by buying your gear online rather than at a local dive shop. Many experienced divers feel justified in buying gear online because of the greater selection, they know what they want, and they often know more about the item than dive store staff.

#2. If the majority of divers in a community take advantage of #1 in purchasing their gear, their local dive shop will likely go out of business. They cannot compete financially with online retailers who have much lower overhead and sell in far greater volume. (By the way--if you're buying from a brick & mortar dive shop located a longer distance from your home than you're willing to drive for air, you're not buying from a local dive shop. It's not local!)

My thoughts..........

Your local dive shop is like any other small business. They are making a profit off of sales to you. They will only continue to exist as long as a reasonable profit is being made in order for them to stay open. If their prices are too high, they will drive customers to other shops and to the internet and they will go out of business. If their prices are too low, they will not make enough of a profit to stay in business. Will you suffer if they go out of business? Is it worth spending an average 40% more on an item at a local dive shop to keep them in business? Is it fair for you to only use your local dive shop for non-profit customer service items like air, repairs & charters (don't try and tell me you'd be willing to pay $15 for an air fill!) while other local divers subsidize your diving through their equipment purchases?

I don't own or work for a dive shop and I feel the pinch when I spend the extra money at my lds. But I have no respect for the diver who thinks they're a "smart shopper" because they saved a lot of money buying online. It just shows me how uninformed or selfish they are.

 

[bradymsu]

There are some local dive shops that no doubt that rip off divers in their community. To address that, here's my proposal:

1. If you can find an item online for 50% cheaper than at your local dive shop, buy it online. Either your local dive shop is trying to rip you off or you're buying gear online without the manufacturer's approval of the sale and therefore without their warranty for future replacement/repair or you're buying bad gear.

OR......

2. You purchase & operate a local dive shop and buy your gear at wholesale prices while trying to make a profit and serve other local divers.

My point is, WE NEED TO KEEP LOCAL DIVE SHOPS IN BUSINESS. ALMOST ALL DIVERS DEPEND ON THEM FOR SOMETHING.