The Grand Traverse in Peacock Springs.

[Superlyte27]

I'm not shoe horning anything. This is an easy relaxing way to do the dive. Have you seen Netdoc, he's kinda old and out of shape (just kidding), he could use a break inbetween the long swims.

As far as the victim in the previous post... the only family/friends who were posting about the tragedy got their feelings hurt when members here were acting like jerks. They quit posting within a day of the accident. The rest of what was posted was heresay, conjecture, rumor and assumption.

You can go back through the archives for my position on the subject, but what I didn't know then, that I do know now is that regardless of training, if your mind is toast, you're not going to make proper decisions. I believe her illness is what caused her confusion and ultimately her death.

But like you said, that's another topic.

 

[PfcAJ]

Lol, a nice breather at the sinks. I like it.

 

[TSandM]

I'll begin by saying that I have never dived Peacock, and don't know the dive in question.

But I do know that, as divers gain experience and confidence at their level of certification, they quite often begin to cast a considering eye at some "workarounds" for the restrictions which are beginning to chafe. Whether that is making a rather liberal definition of a "restriction" (in other words, if I can get through it without hitting anything, it isn't major) or running one's primary line to a jump line, to avoid doing a "jump" which is forbidden . . . I suspect many of us are guilty of having violated the spirit, if not the letter of the rules. I'm not condoning it, and I would never counsel someone to do such a dive, but I have done them, and friends have done them (and sometimes gotten found out and scolded by their instructors, too!).

To my way of thinking, if you can swim from pond A to pond B on thirds, it's not a traverse in the sense of why traverses are forbidden. At no time is there any doubt that you can return to your own exit. In MX, there are a lot of places where you can swim from one cenote to another, sometimes on FAR less than thirds. There's one such dive we did routinely on 6ths, when I was Cave 1. We would tie off a spool to the end of the line and surface in a beautiful little cenote, and admire the mot mot birds, and then go back and swim home. Is that a traverse?

If you have to set it up, and put a marker down to prove you can continue to the planned exit, that's a traverse, and that's an advanced dive. I have not gotten the sense that the dive NetDoc is planning requires that. So why is everybody upset about it?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'll begin by saying that I have never dived Peacock, and don't know the dive in question.

From my logs ...

Orange Grove to Challenge ... max depth 66 ffw, average depth 46 ffw, dive time 53 minutes, gas used 950 psi (on HP130's)

Challenge to P1 ... max depth 54 ffw, average depth 37 ffw, dive time 62 minutes, gas used 900 psi

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Superlyte27]

Thanks TSANDM.
My thoughts exactly.

 

[Superlyte27]

From my logs ...

Orange Grove to Challenge ... max depth 66 ffw, average depth 46 ffw, dive time 53 minutes, gas used 950 psi (on HP130's)

Challenge to P1 ... max depth 54 ffw, average depth 37 ffw, dive time 62 minutes, gas used 900 psi

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'd have to pull the logs up, but I vaguely remember 97 minutes TRT

*edit
Total time with deco was 111minutes, total gas consumed was 189cu' This was a leisurely stroll from OG to Peacock last month.

 

[netmage]

Thanks TSANDM.
My thoughts exactly.

I have an open mind - and I'm open to change it.... Layout the plan... layout your pressures...

Are you talking about a one way trip...? Or round trip...?

Mind you - for the moment - I'm setting aside NAUI's 140cuft rule for the 'start of a dive' standard...

 

[Superlyte27]

Ok...
Let me pull up another trip. Exactly like the one I'm proposing.... give me a few minutes to find it.



EDIT*

Put in at OG with 3340psi and 31 minutes later surfaced at Challenge with 2484psi. Took 10 minute SI and got back on the mainline and surfaced at Olsen at 32 minutes later and 1778psi. Ten minute surface interval and got back on the mainline and arrived at 24 minutes later P1 with 1288psi. Switched to DECO bottle that was dropped from stairs at P1 for 5 minutes of deco (wasn't required but i'm paranoid about being a fat guy with the bends).

 

[The Chairman]

So why is everybody upset about it?

Because they can be?

In part, it's an internet phenomenon. You ask a question (Who wants to be my buddy), and instead of peeps actually answering the question, they make a big deal out of it instead. Then they accuse the OP of a big ego, a desire to close the spring down, wanting to exceed standards and remark that "if you have to ask..." It's like a Shakespearian play: Much ado about nothing. Thank God that I have incredibly low self esteem (according to IDocSteeve) and so there is no possible way that I could feel any worse about myself and obvious self destructive tendencies.

I actually saw this first in my ITC. My course director was the late Wayne Mitchell, and he attracted a high caliber of peeps wanting to staff his course. There were two of us candidates and well over 20 (26?) examiners. It was brutal, and many were intent on showing that they had the highest standards. Too freakin' funny! I must admit to breaking down in tears twice, and hearing these guys justify their overly harsh comments only made it worse. Still, it made me tough and a damn good instructor.

It's funny, but the only post I take offense to is about another person. I have sent two PMs asking the user about their post, and am eagerly awaiting the answer.

 

[ucfdiver]

I'm not shoe horning anything. This is an easy relaxing way to do the dive. Have you seen Netdoc, he's kinda old and out of shape (just kidding), he could use a break inbetween the long swims.

As far as the victim in the previous post... the only family/friends who were posting about the tragedy got their feelings hurt when members here were acting like jerks. They quit posting within a day of the accident. The rest of what was posted was heresay, conjecture, rumor and assumption.

You can go back through the archives for my position on the subject, but what I didn't know then, that I do know now is that regardless of training, if your mind is toast, you're not going to make proper decisions. I believe her illness is what caused her confusion and ultimately her death.

But like you said, that's another topic.

Too bad your dive buddies didn't follow training procedures, then we wouldn't have any doubt. As it is, there's very little to learn because standards weren't followed, and we cannot conclude what would have happened had they been followed.

It's funny, but the only post I take offense to is about another person. I have sent two PMs asking the user about their post, and am eagerly awaiting the answer.

Pete, I thought this was so well known that it was a rhetorical question, and didn't respond. TJ was the instructor I was referring to. When someone posted about (yet another) one of his students who wasn't up to par with the level of certification he had been issued, Tim was banned for talking about it, even though it was in an objective manner. This isn't the first one of TJ's students who have concerned other divers, some of whom have gone to TJ personally about specific students.

Then again, it's hard to tell your students to follow training standards when you post a dive profile on your own website's forum using "air" and a travel gas to 190ft at Eagles Nest.