The Golden Rule v. Dive Deposits

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My beef is with dive charters that have no problem canceling a trip last minute simply because it isn't profitable while holding divers to a strict no-cancelation policy.

Even worse was once in Key West when I had scheduled two separate charters for my group of 6. 3 of us were doing the Vandenberg and 3 were doing a shallower reef trip. Late in the afternoon before the scheduled dive, the wreck dive was canceled due to not enough divers, no alternate dive charter was suggested, and worse yet, was that after I found a different charter for both groups, the first charter refused to cancel our shallower trip meaning we'd be forced to drive to 2 different marinas due to no fault of our own. I had to dispute the credit card charge to get my money back.

That's completely fair. Deposits should be ensuring that the dive op has revenue WHEN operating. If they decide to cancel, it doesn't matter if no one signed up that day, they were not making any income. And I would expect (someone like @Wookie can comment) that a business would base their pricing on number of days of operation, knowing they will at times get blown out.

When in Florida, I'll be sure to look at the fine print and choose my charter accordingly.

 

[Allen-1]

That's completely fair. Deposits should be ensuring that the dive op has revenue WHEN operating. If they decide to cancel, it doesn't matter if no one signed up that day, they were not making any income. And I would expect (someone like @Wookie can comment) that a business would base their pricing on number of days of operation, knowing they will at times get blown out.

When in Florida, I'll be sure to look at the fine print and choose my charter accordingly.

I booked a series of dives in WPB and paid for them in advance. Weather blew out a couple of them, shop refunded without question or prompting.

I chose the dive operations based upon reading this forum and direct messaging a few of the people here who dive in WPB regularly. I wasn't disappointed.

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

I suppose mileage will vary on this, but for me at least, the prospect of losing a deposit would not incentive me to go on a dive I didn't want to go on. The money spent is a sunk cost, why would I then do something I don't think I'd really enjoy or feel good doing?

I also understand that for a dive op, their costs are the same whether I am there or not, and if anything, me not being there costs them a tip... as I think about it, if they did refund, that would be more of an incentive to go, so I didn't feel so much like a flake...

 

[scubadada]

The operators I use in SE Florida nearly always cancel trips due to an inadequate number of divers, or due to conditions, the afternoon before the dive and give a full refund. This gives one the opportunity to attempt to book with an alternative operator if one wishes. Occasionally, an operator cancels a trip due to conditions on the day of a dive, especially when conditions are worse than expected. This is disappointing, but again results in a full refund.

I don't recall ever cancelling a trip due to illness or my personal perception of conditions. If I did so, I would expect to lose my payment as I had violated the cancellation policy.

 

[fullytek]

Let's give look at it from my prospective.
We run 2 boats in the lakes . They are set up for 6 to 10 divers.
Our season runs from may to October, 20ish weekends with about a 20 percent blowout rate. So maybe 15 weekends or 30 days to make our season and cover our costs
We are also divers and when not running a boat we take that time to go diving ourselves.
We have a fiamily and real jobs
Whan we run a charter we are sacrificing time with our family or days we could be diving so keep that in mind .

Most clubs and groups book durring the off season so dates can't be refilled if canceled.

Last season the London scuba club booked our boat for a weekend. We didn't enforce our deposit polocy as we considered them friends and took them at there word.

Fast forward to the Wednesday prior to there booking and we get a text from the organization saying thay have been unable to fill the boat and would have to cancel.

So here we are with no ability to fill the boat and replace those earnings because a club couldn't be trusted with there word. What's worse is due to the short notice we were unable able to make arrangements to get out diving ourselves.
That weekend turned out to have the best conditions of the season yet our boat sat at the dock.

We only have so much summer. when we book a date with a group or client we are securing that chunk of a limited resource specifically for that group.

As a result we have instituted a no pay no play polocy
We will not hold a date or spot for anyone without a 50% deposit.
Deposits are non-refundable. In the event of weather or issue on our end we will provide a credit for future trips but not a refund.
Divers who show up late will be left at the dock and are still responsible for the ballance of there seat.

Clubs or divers who do not conduct them selves in a responsible manner will not be welcomed back.


A wise person once told me that risk must be shared.

We have hundreds or thousands of dollars tied up in the operation.
We also commit a tremendous amount of our time to providing the best experience for our coustomers.

If you don't think our position is reasonable then dive with the other operation.

Ooops, yah they aren't around anymore

 

[Dan G]

Let's give look at it from my prospective.
We run 2 boats in the lakes . They are set up for 6 to 10 divers.
Our season runs from may to October, 20ish weekends with about a 20 percent blowout rate. So maybe 15 weekends or 30 days to make our season and cover our costs
We are also divers and when not running a boat we take that time to go diving ourselves.
We have a fiamily and real jobs
Whan we run a charter we are sacrificing time with our family or days we could be diving so keep that in mind .

Most clubs and groups book durring the off season so dates can't be refilled if canceled.

Last season the London scuba club booked our boat for a weekend. We didn't enforce our deposit polocy as we considered them friends and took them at there word.

Fast forward to the Wednesday prior to there booking and we get a text from the organization saying thay have been unable to fill the boat and would have to cancel.

So here we are with no ability to fill the boat and replace those earnings because a club couldn't be trusted with there word. What's worse is due to the short notice we were unable able to make arrangements to get out diving ourselves.
That weekend turned out to have the best conditions of the season yet our boat sat at the dock.

We only have so much summer. when we book a date with a group or client we are securing that chunk of a limited resource specifically for that group.

As a result we have instituted a no pay no play polocy
We will not hold a date or spot for anyone without a 50% deposit.
Deposits are non-refundable. In the event of weather or issue on our end we will provide a credit for future trips but not a refund.
Divers who show up late will be left at the dock and are still responsible for the ballance of there seat.

Clubs or divers who do not conduct them selves in a responsible manner will not be welcomed back.


A wise person once told me that risk must be shared.

We have hundreds or thousands of dollars tied up in the operation.
We also commit a tremendous amount of our time to providing the best experience for our coustomers.

If you don't think our position is reasonable then dive with the other operation.

Ooops, yah they aren't around anymore

Deposits are non-refundable. In the event of weather or issue on our end we will provide a credit for future trips but not a refund.

I appreciate reading the perspective of an owner/operator and much of what you say makes sense to me. Regarding the policy I quoted above in italics, if a diver is visiting the area and has no plans to return anytime soon or a diver is unable to dive on any of the days you have open spots available or you do not have any availability remaining in the season at all for the diver to use the credit, do you offer a refund rather than a credit for future trips? Thanks.

 

[LI-er]

Deposits are non-refundable. In the event of weather or issue on our end we will provide a credit for future trips but not a refund.

That's a dealbreaker for me if I'm diving in your area. very infrequently or it's a one time trip. Why should I lose my money due to a trip that is canceled due to no fault of my own.

Once I inquired and was told no refund for cancellations due to weather or mechanical problems or sick crew or not enough divers or whatever I'd remove you from consideration as a charter I would dive with and I'm sure I'm in good company.

Your unfriendly and overly restrictive policies are costing you bookings.

 

[fullytek]

Deposits are non-refundable. In the event of weather or issue on our end we will provide a credit for future trips but not a refund.

I appreciate reading the perspective of an owner/operator and much of what you say makes sense to me. Regarding the policy I quoted above in italics, if a diver is visiting the area and has no plans to return anytime soon or a diver is unable to dive on any of the days you have open spots available or you do not have any availability remaining in the season at all for the diver to use the credit, do you offer a refund rather than a credit for future trips? Thanks.

The diver can return on a later date.

Risk must be shared

 

[fullytek]

That's a dealbreaker for me if I'm diving in your area. very infrequently or it's a one time trip. Why should I lose my money due to a trip that is canceled due to no fault of my own.

Once I inquired and was told no refund for cancellations due to weather or mechanical problems or sick crew or not enough divers or whatever I'd remove you from consideration as a charter I would dive with and I'm sure I'm in good company.

Your unfriendly and overly restrictive policies are costing you bookings.

Not really. Like I said we have limited inventory so by having a polocy like this it weeds on the people who are going to be a problem.

Often the diving is the cheapest part of a trip.

If weathered out shold I refund your travel experiences or fills.?

We take out boats to places no one else goes.
Shold I spend thousands moving the boat to to run a charter only to loose money.

How manny seasons can a boat loose money before there just isn't a boat any more?

If you can't part with loosing a deposit then you probably shouldn't be diving.

 

[inquis]

Risk must be shared

Building some # of weather days into the pricing allows sharing this risk with all clients throughout the season. This is in contrast to sticking it to the handful of divers who held up their end of the bargain.