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The Ethics of Promoting Cave Diving

Discussion in 'Cave Diving' started by kensuf, Mar 15, 2015.

  1. kierentec

    kierentec Captain

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: High Springs, FL; Tulum, Mexico
    393
    273
    63
    Thank you for pointing this out, the typo has been corrected. I would like to clarify, however, that I am not personally in charge of the department. I am one of several individuals who work in the Training and Membership Services department.
     
  2. Redshift

    Redshift DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Finland
    929
    311
    63
    The problem with promoting cave diving comes from who is going to be attracted to it and why.
    I don't see a problem in having websites with information nor trying to show the qualities of philosophies behind a dive shop / instructor. Yes, it makes cave diving more visible, but is there a problem in showing that there are caves, people dive them and there is training available to do so? No.
    The problem comes when dive shops / instructors try to engage divers and call them "Hey, what you should do now is cave diving!" What if they hadn't thought of that? Or are not suited for it? Are they going to say first "Come cave diving!" and then "Sorry, maybe you shouldn't."? Hardly...
    How many of you have bought something you didn't need or want or even like that much because you were convinced to do it by someone or by an advert...? Do we want the same for cave divers? And peer pressure is something mentioned frequently! Some kinds of advertising and engaging potential divers are peer pressure.
    I saw recently a dive shop advertising trimix courses and telling divers to "join the elite". Is that the way to attract divers and are those the divers with the correct attitude?

    Another problem lies more with the agencies than instructors / shops and that has to do with the way they enforce standards. What's the point on having them and then not caring if they are followed? They should take very seriously any reports of wrong doing (yes, I know, the whole debate about how to know if something is wrong when some standards are not public) and be on top of their instructors.
     
    kafkaland and kensuf like this.
  3. karstdvr

    karstdvr Solo Diver

    # of Dives:
    Location: South GA
    1,874
    656
    113
    My apologies, it was petty,but better said via a PM
     
  4. daniel f aleman

    daniel f aleman Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Austin, TX
    2,191
    35
    48
    Being certified as a TDI Cave Instructor over a "weekend or two" is impossible. So...
     
  5. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    26,196
    18,264
    113
    Now that you have crossed over, are you sure those are the TDI requirements and not what the person who handled that decided to require? TDI allows an instructor to go beyond the basic requirements.

    When I started Tech training with TDI, my instructor told us flat out that he was going to go well beyond the TDI requirements. He did not tell us what the TDI requirements were, and he did not tell us what his requirements were. He only casually mentioned one day that we were well past the TDI requirements already. You will not believe how many months it took me to pass Intro to Tech. After a while I got a little miffed and wanted to get a cert card or two. I wrote to TDI and described what we were being required to do. Their reply was that it sure sounded like I was learning a lot, and I should be happy with it. Now that I am an instructor for those courses and know what is required, I am amazed at how much was added.

    Now, it is also possible for an individual instructor to go the opposite direction and require less. It is not allowed by the rules, but how is one to know? A few years ago my niece became a NAUI certified diver by doing one 2-hour pool session and one OW dive to a maximum depth of 10 feet. I am pretty sure NAUI requires more than that, but she has a card.
     
  6. daniel f aleman

    daniel f aleman Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Austin, TX
    2,191
    35
    48
    No she didn't.
     
  7. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    26,196
    18,264
    113
    I am not clear on your response. She has a NAUI card certifying her as a diver. That means she is certified. If she presents it to a dive operation, they will accept it. She will not do that because she says, rightly so, she has no real idea how to dive. So what do you mean?
     
    Capt Jim Wyatt likes this.
  8. Capt Jim Wyatt

    Capt Jim Wyatt Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop Staff Member

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: High Springs - Cave Country
    2,336
    1,450
    113
    What do you mean Daniel?

    I would agree she is not a "trained" diver, but she apparently is a 'certified" diver since they issued her a c-card.
     
  9. daniel f aleman

    daniel f aleman Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Austin, TX
    2,191
    35
    48
    Look you two. We know who you are, and your respected places in diving instruction.

    Nobody has ever been certified as a scuba diver by NAUI in the manner described above. And nobody has become a TDI Cave Instructor after "one or two weekends" under an IT.


     
  10. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    59,545
    27,846
    113
    It's beginning to sound like a Monty Python skit...

     
    Capt Jim Wyatt likes this.

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