The deep air angle - split from Missouri Fatality

[hg frogman]

Dive training should provide the optimal solutions for the environment the diver wants to explore.

Air is often "more optimal" than Trimix for open water dives down to 45 meters/150 feet. Especially if there is current. With air you don't necessarily have to use doubles or ANY deco stage and so you are way more streamlined, your deco is less complex, your ascent rate less critical, and so on.

Overkill may kill you as much (or more) than narcosis. Narcosis isn't the only factor, can't you understand this ?

An END of 45 meters/150 feet is often "more optimal" than an END of 30 meters/100 feet for deep open ocean dives (apart from cave diving and wrecks penetration). There is an interesting article of Mark Ellyatt about this, just google and you may find it.

Statements like "END greater than 30 meters/100 feet will harm you" become deadly boring when they are repeated like a mantra for whatever diving context there is.

 

[PfcAJ]

Bulky deco stages? What? I'll go do a dive to 150' and al al40 of 50%. Thats it. Doesn't get any more streamlined than that. Deco is more complex? Huh? Do you even have a trimix cert? Ascent rate is less critical? I can tell you don't.

 

[Scott L]

Its just harder to deal with things with a high END. Should people be allowed to dive deep air? Sure, have a blast. Teach it? No. Just like I don't think scuba classes should be taught without SPGs or cave/tech classes without doubles. Will not having an SPG kill you? Nope, people did it for years. Is it optimal? Nope.

Dive training should provide the optimal solutions for the environment the diver wants to explore.

That fairly sums up my opinion. I had asked the question in an earlier thread for those who disagree with the above statement...If you were put in charge of a well known technical training agency what would be your stated END recomendation? 100ft, 120ft, 160ft???

 

[LiteHedded]

Air is often "more optimal" than Trimix for open water dives down to 45 meters/150 feet. Especially if there is current. With air you don't necessarily have to carry bulky deco stage(s) and so you are way more streamlined, your deco is less complex, your ascent rate less critical, and so on.

Overkill may kill you as much (or more) than narcosis. Narcosis isn't the only factor, can't you understand this ?

An END of 45 meters/150 feet is often "more optimal" than an END of 30 meters/100 feet for deep open ocean dives (apart from cave diving and wrecks penetration). There is an interesting article of Mark Ellyatt about this, just google and you may find it.

Statements like "END greater than 30 meters/100 feet will harm you" become deadly boring when they are repeated like a mantra for whatever diving context there is.

lolwut

 

[Scott L]

Finger pointing is not productive (nor is pointing out finger pointing), but I think is is misconceived to say this is all about trolls trying to bait the GUE crowd. I have seen of people leaping onto threads to aggressively push the other way.

Fair enough. It's still reason #1 on my list followed closely by chest thumping and the persuasive argument by Chatterton in the thread you posted, Thal and others that if you dive deep on He you will eventually find yourself diving deep on air for whatever reason so train for the eventualilty....

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

Do those initials somehow make you a better diver?

 

[DCBC]

I feel that 100ft END (or less) should be maintained because past that, the haze of narcosis seems to really start affecting folks. Deep diving is dangerous enough even on gas, no reason to add in excessive narcosis into it.

Yes, but not to the extent that safety is appreciably affected. What you don't seem to understand is that risk is a personal assessment. Although it's commendable of you to present your opinion, don't be offended if some of us choose not to accept it. There are participants in this discussion that have much more training and experience than you do. It's acceptable that they come up with a different conclusion.

I suspect that you are a safe diver. You never dive in low visibility, never do a decompression dive, always are within touching distance of your buddy, don't dive wrecks or caves and minimize risk at every step. I respect your choices; why is it that you don't seem to accept the choices of others?

Its just harder to deal with things with a high END. Should people be allowed to dive deep air? Sure, have a blast. Teach it? No. ...Dive training should provide the optimal solutions for the environment the diver wants to explore.

I suppose that you should contact each of the world's certification agencies and get them to stop teaching the use of air past 50'.

 

[Hank49]

lolwut

I haven't seen this one before...:Laugh Out Loud While Under Table? With Underwear Tied? While Using THC?

 

[Blackwood]

I haven't seen this one before...:Laugh Out Loud While Under Table? With Underwear Tied? While Using THC?

Urban Dictionary: lolwut

 

[PfcAJ]

Deleted. The comment was too dumb to even respond to.