The deep air angle - split from Missouri Fatality

[DivingCRNA]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread is the deep air discussion that was split out from here.

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What's your definition of a safe depth?

The point here is, we don't know why the guy was at 179'. I'm not sure why everyone is assuming he meant to be there.

Plot,

Don't you know that "Thou shalt not dive below 100 feet without trimix" is a commandment of the DIR faith?

 

[DCBC]

Ya, something went wrong. Deep. On air.

Here we go again PfcAJ; the "Deep Air is unsafe" argument that you always seem to use. Many of us have done thousands of dives over 150' on air quite safely. Because you decide to use trimix on dives past 50', that's your call; don't put your personal limitations on others. No one knows what the cause of death was in this case. Give it a rest.

 

[PfcAJ]

I'm not going to give it a rest. There is a very high correlation between deep diving deaths and high ENDs. Agencies and individuals keep saying that this deep air nonsense is ok, yet the body count continues to rise.

Incident free is not the same as safe. These things keep coming up, and yet you want to shift the blame onto something else over and over. Go ahead and explain that to me. What correlation have you viewed? Not able to "handle" the narcosis? Not macho enough? Tell that to the guys family.

 

[LiteHedded]

Here we go again PfcAJ; the "Deep Air is unsafe" argument that you always seem to use. Many of us have done thousands of dives over 150' on air quite safely. Because you decide to use trimix on dives past 50', that's your call; don't put your personal limitations on others. No one knows what the cause of death was in this case. Give it a rest.

people 'giving it a rest' is the problem.
this isn't going to stop unless people stop 'giving it a rest'

 

[DCBC]

I'm not going to give it a rest. There is a very high correlation between deep diving deaths and high ENDs. Agencies and individuals keep saying that this deep air nonsense is ok, yet the body count continues to rise.

Incident free is not the same as safe. These things keep coming up, and yet you want to shift the blame onto something else over and over. Go ahead and explain that to me. What correlation have you viewed? Not able to "handle" the narcosis? Not macho enough? Tell that to the guys family.

For the sake of repeating myself, no one knows the cause of death in this situation. You continue to lay blame and make suppositions without having any knowledge of the facts in-issue.

As far as deep air is concerned, perhaps you might substantiate your claims by posting statistics on cases where narcosis has been found to be a contributing factor to the death of divers. We might even compare this with other diving activities such as cave, wreck, ice, or just using trimix and really see where the real risks are. I for one would find that a lot more productive than just hearing that "Deep Air is Evil."

 

[ianr33]

For the sake of repeating myself, no one knows the cause of death in this situation. You continue to lay blame and make suppositions without having any knowledge of the facts in-issue.

As far as deep air is concerned, perhaps you might substantiate your claims by posting statistics on cases where narcosis has been found to be a contributing factor to the death of divers.

O.K. I'll start with this one
The Deco Stop

Of course we will never KNOW if narcosis was a factor but I'm sure an END of 155 on a rebreather in a cave did not help much.

 

[Ninja Diver]

I would COMPLETELY agree with the standards in the industry have fallen off the chart. But it doesn't just apply to divers. TRUST ME I've seen instructors do things that would FREAK YOU OUT. I had an instructor ask me to get him more weight, then more , the more adding (10lbs)... I stopped and asked him if we could talk about his problem. He YELLED at me, holding his inflator hose up and showing me that he knew how to descend. I asked him if he was deflating his dry suit... His answer..... "Oh yea, I forgot about that" I had an INSTRUCTOR as me "How do you get in and out of these Zodiacs"? You're kidding me right? Just because you pass what's equivilant to an open book test, doesn't mean your "qualified". I pay absolutely no attention to ANYONE'S cert card. It's amazing that shops certify some people as instructors and equally amazing that they have no idea what the legal ramifications are for putting the instructor number on someone's cert cards.

 

[LiteHedded]

O.K. I'll start with this one
The Deco Stop

Of course we will never KNOW if narcosis was a factor but I'm sure an END of 155 on a rebreather in a cave did not help much.

well it's that way with all of them, isn't it?
makes it easy for the proponents to dismiss it

 

[plot]

O.K. I'll start with this one
The Deco Stop

Of course we will never KNOW if narcosis was a factor but I'm sure an END of 155 on a rebreather in a cave did not help much.

while I appreciate the link, I read the first few pages then started skimming through. it's really a pretty poor example, it seems like there's a laundry list of things they did wrong, and was there ever a followup on whether or not the CCR malfunctioned or was improperly used (ie: the life of the scrubber material used up)?

We'll never know if narcosis was an issue, but we do know it could've been a number of other things.

 

[Web Monkey]

I had an INSTRUCTOR as me "How do you get in and out of these Zodiacs"? You're kidding me right?

What's the problem with that? There are all sorts of boats that have specialized entries and exits. all you have to do is ask the captain.

So far, I've re-boarded boats using a ladder, an elevator, a ramp (like on a landing craft) and by handing up my BC and hauling myself over the gunnel, but I've never re-boarded a Zodiac.

All you have to do is ask.

Terry