The changing Scuba Industry

[rmssetc]

If there were only dive shops at dive locations, how could you build a community? People

How would you build a community? Hmmm...maybe some kind of thingy using computers, so that the "community" isn't tied to a small geographic area or a particular business.

would only see each other on very occasional vacation trips, and then only by specific prearrangement. No community there. I would think that would be a more unstable model than the one we currently have, and also probably the death of diving because people can't get interested in something they never see.

If you drive by a dive shop every now and then in the course of living your life, you might someday get curious and go in, since the presence of the shop kind of shows that diving is available to regular people. If you never see a dive shop in your regular world, you're more likely--if you think of diving at all--to see it as something that other people do in other places. A few with the bug will get themselves into it no matter what, but I don't think that number of people would be enough to keep the industry going.

I know there are a bunch of brick&mortar dive shops w/in 50 miles of me. Driven by them on-and-off for years. Took mental note of their location. Despite a long-term interest in learning to dive, simply knowing that the local shops existed had zero impact on my decision to actually take up diving.

Aside from getting mask/fins/snorkel before my OW certification, I haven't been inside any of them, and don't particularly see any need to in the future.

Also, how do you pursue additional training if there aren't many local shops? Get a new cert each time you go on vacation and spend your vacation with your nose in a book when you're not in the water?

Well, with only 3 certs, I don't have much to offer here, but my experience has been that I spend my time at home with my nose in a book (or on-line) doing the e-learning portion, then spend my time & money on vacation on the in-water skills, so the presence (or absence) of local shops doesn't matter much.

Personally, I don't like water that's colder than the Caribbean. So, even if I chose to do training with an LDS*, that'd just be confined water (and maybe classroom) sessions, with any open water training happening, um, on vacation, through another dive shop. Again, the "local" shop isn't a big benefit.

Now, if the local shop had a great reputation for training (ie., if I wasn't at the other end of Pennsylvania from James Lapenta in Canonsburg), maybe I'd reconsider....but if I've got to travel somewhere, even just overnight, for training, I may as well make it a full-on vacation to a desirable location.



* Every time I see the acronym "LDS", I need to remind myself that it's not the other LDS. Just imagine the discussions they must have about supporting the local community.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My passion is Great Lakes wrecks. I happen to have been reading about them for 25 years. The thought of being able t dive them really grabbed me when I was first thinking about diving. I don't really give a flying fig about the pretty fishies. . I'm a major history buff. Give me my wrecks! . I'm told I'm an anomaly - a woman who isn't running screaming from local cold water diving, and is embracing it. Always did do my own thing.

That wouldn't make you an anomaly in the Pacific Northwest ... you'd fit right in ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Schwob]

I feel compelled to throw in my 2 centavos worth...

My girlfriend (66-year-old baby boomer) is signed up for her OW course in May in Puerto Vallarta. Why PV? Because we wanted to go there anyway and they do have diving there.

Her take on the whole certification thing is this: she feels that after she completes the OW course she can't possibly know very much otherwise why would they have all of those other courses that she needs to take? Will she ever take any other courses? Probably not. The courses run somewhere around $500 each (US) and take up too much vacation time. She is confident that I will teach her whatever else she needs to know. She has not spent very much on equipment and probably won't. She bought a new mask and got a good deal on a wetsuit but most of the equipment she will be using is from my "inventory" of good-quality, well-maintained, reliable stuff.

What about me? In the past 48 years I have probably spent less than $1000 on dive equipment and that includes my compressor. I have gone beach diving thousands of times and numerous boat dives at Catalina (California). I feel that my biggest waste of money was on some AL 80s and I have gone back to using steel 72s. In the past few years I have spent thousands of dollars on dive vacations in tropical locations. As a result I am learning how to take dive vacations for less money. I am not currently doing much beach diving in Southern California but expect to be again soon. During my decades of beach diving I never felt the need to spend much money on diving after the initial expense of the basic stuff. I rarely even had to pay for air. My favorite LDS probably punched my Air Card about one time out of five, if that. They did sell me on the aluminum tanks but I think they sincerely thought they were an improvement. When regulators suddenly improved they shared their knowledge and experience with me and I appreciated it. Other than that they never really tried to sell me anything. I guess they made their money selling stuff to the people who always needed the latest gadget and there seems to be a lot of them.

Dang... I thought I was frugal. Got some learning to do on that front...

 

[Saniflush]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread, however the takeaway for me is that different people, put different value, on different criteria. I like many on here feel like I actually have a relationship with my LDS. I am willing to pay a higher price through them because they have worked hard to get to know me and my likes/dislikes.

They don't just push gear and courses, they really love to dive and teach. Enthusiasm is contagious. It's easy to get excited about the sport when the people who you do it with are excited. The folks associated with my LDS get just as excited talking about new and old gear as they do about an upcoming trip.

Conversely there is another LDS a comparable distance from me that is very standoffish and they don't seem to care whether you do business with them or not. Some of that is because they have a large (and pretty well off) customer base, however the little bit I have been involved with them left me feeling that I was just a number to them.

Bottom line for me is that service and being around kindred spirits is worth a LOT to me. I feel very fortunate that I have the LDS that I have and am sorry for anyone who does not have that kind of shop.

 

[CuzzA]

Like most industries the local community dive shops have suffered from the internet sales warehouses. My LDS has curbed this by price matching any competitor. They also discount certs if you buy the gear from them.

A couple things I'd point out... According to this research by DEMA in 2014 the number of people getting certified seems to be about the same year after year despite a growing population.

http://www.dema.org/store/download.asp?id=7811B097-8882-4707-A160-F999B49614B6

That basically tells me one thing... The interest isn't growing with the population and therefore the industry will also remain about the same. IMO, that's probably a good thing. Do we want more and more divers kicking the crap out of the reefs?

Nevertheless, IMO, young millennials really aren't the target market I would be shifting my business towards to grow the industry. There's a saying in the financial services industry, "Young people have debt, older people have money." The same holds true for an expensive sport like diving. And the sales demographics back this up. Focus on marketing to the dual income families. Get them interested. Make them a customer of your gear by offering discounted instruction and well planned inclusive travel. Mom and dad have enough to manage with the kids, look for areas where you can bring value and you'll likely have a customer for life.

 

[2airishuman]

Although I am not a millennial, I am a new diver (about 3 years). Here are a few of my views of the industry.

1. The industry seems to be set up to extract as much money as possible from divers.

I believe that this is a real problem. I would characterize it as: products and services where the price is not justified by either cost or value.

2. Prices are all over the place.
[...]
- I purchased a couple used steel tanks last year. My LDS charged $150 each for Hydro, tumbling and vis. I find out recently that another LDS charges $40 for Hydro and vis.

Be careful what you compare. Tumbling can expensive because it's time consuming and requires the use of consumable supplies. Shops include varying amounts of valve service with a hydro test. One shop near me replaces the burst disc, installs a viton neck o-ring, and puts tribolube on the threads; also, as a courtesy, they typically do not charge for cylinders that fail inspection, and most steel cylinders come back with a + rating. Another shop has a lower price but doesn't do all that.

3. Lack of willingness of LDS to pass on information.
- One of the main reasons I prefer shopping in person is so that I can obtain as much information as possible so that I may make an informed decision. My LDS's seem to want to withhold that info and decide for me what the best choice would be. Getting information from them is like pulling teeth sometimes.

The dive community as a whole, including LDSs, experienced divers, and to some extent Scubaboard, is paternalistic and unwilling to share information that an aspiring diver is not thought to be "ready" for. This is purportedly done to keep you safe.

 

[BDSC]

And they don't make any money running trips. They charge basically the same price for a slot on one of their trips as what you could book it for yourself.

Trust me on this one. They are making money on trips and it can be substantial. Take the liveaboard example I gave earlier in this thread. If they chartered the entire liveaboard and sold the spaces for list price (what you could book it for yourself), they could make $15,000 and even send a trip leader for free.

 

[dmaziuk]

A couple things I'd point out... According to this research by DEMA in 2014 the number of people getting certified seems to be about the same year after year despite a growing population.

http://www.dema.org/store/download.asp?id=7811B097-8882-4707-A160-F999B49614B6

That basically tells me one thing... The interest isn't growing with the population and therefore the industry will also remain about the same. IMO, that's probably a good thing. Do we want more and more divers kicking the crap out of the reefs?

Which page has the "growing population" stats? What I see is household income > $50Kpa on >75% of all charts and more like 90% on the first two. AFAIK population growth tends to be inversely proportional to that particular metric.

I also have a sad feeling that where population and income are both growing there are hordes kicking the crap out of the reefs... but nowhere as much as dredging, land-filling, shark-fin-fishing, <insert more here> the crap out of the reefs.

 

[Aanderson81]

Trust me on this one. They are making money on trips and it can be substantial. Take the liveaboard example I gave earlier in this thread. If they chartered the entire liveaboard and sold the spaces for list price (what you could book it for yourself), they could make $15,000 and even send a trip leader for free.

Yeah. This was discussed a bit on the side by one of the employees when i took my AOW. The trips are a significant revenue stream for the shops (and sending a staff member at no cost is a nice perk for the employees). Not a bad thing honestly. Would rather they pay their rent freelancing as a travel agent than selling me something I dont need

 

[stuartv]

Trust me on this one. They are making money on trips and it can be substantial. Take the liveaboard example I gave earlier in this thread. If they chartered the entire liveaboard and sold the spaces for list price (what you could book it for yourself), they could make $15,000 and even send a trip leader for free.

But, the shop I'm talking about doesn't do that. They don't charter whole boats. They take small to small-ish groups. I'm pretty sure they do normally get a free slot for the trip leader. But, I believe that is really about all the shop gets out of it directly.

Their reason for running the trips is selling gear (which I mentioned before) and, of course, they often have either OW cert dives on the trip for people they've been training or they have continuing ed classes with cert dives on the trip. So, selling gear and training to trip-goers.

Regardless, if the trips cost the customers basically the same as if the customer booked the trip themselves, then more power to the shop if they can actually turn a profit on the trips! Organizing and leading trips like that is a pain. If someone could organize a group big enough to charter a whole boat and make money or save everyone money by doing all that legwork for free, that's cool, too.