The 130 / 120 Debate...

[AquaCat]

Howdy, I'm 5'9" and dive the old LP104's almost exclusively. A buddy had a set of HP100's and then got a new set of the E-130's. I played with the 130's and they were just about identical to the 104's. I dive a BP/wing and doubles with those tanks.

I also have a HP120 as a single tank. I got it before I got doubles and its a pain. It's just to dang long. I briefly thought about doubling 120's and then thought better of it. I'm just not tall enought to make it comfortable. 104's/130's are quite a bit shorter and work for me.

Mike

Mike, thank you very much for your reply!

Mike, having dived both the 120 and 130...apart from the length issues you mentioned (not caring for the 120's length), could you comment on whether or not you noticed any different buoyancy characteristics...whether the different diameters (E7=7.2" and E8=8.0") created different balance sensations (i.e. different CGs) or different drag sensations or just any difference at all? Do you think a taller diver would find one more preferable over the other?

I know my LDS owner has told me he can't see why one would "need" a 130...for whatever reasons he does not carry 130s and would probably have to special order them. This complicates things a bit...but whatever.

Thank you very much again Mike, for these reasons I particularly appreciate your and others help!!

 

[bertschb]

I know my LDS owner has told me he can't see why one would "need" a 130...for whatever reasons he does not carry 130s and would probably have to special order them. This complicates things a bit...but whatever.

The E8-130's have not been available for a few months. I think they're supposed to be available again in April or May. I heard PST didn't anticipate the demand and didn't make enough of them.

Don't "need" a 130? Sheesh!

 

[AquaCat]

Please ignore...somehow double posted...posted below.

 

[AquaCat]

aqua, you're very tall. the 120s should work like a charm for you. also, i find it interesting that many will harp about the importance of streamlining and minimizing drag and then they double up 130s. not that they are bad tanks but i think the 120s make for a more compact package which may reduce air consumption and definitely helps when trying to get into tight spaces. i amnot sure what's so much better about the 130s buoyancy characteristics. 0.5lb more negative - big whoop. i rather don't schlepp an additional 6lb per tank when out of the water. my vote is for the 120s.

Hi Doc...thank you for responding!

Regarding "what's so much better about the 130s buoyancy characteristics"...I know what you are saying. I have never had a chance to use them myself, but I know it seems like everyone that has is completely sold on them.

I talked with a guy at Halcyon fairly recently about another issue and as our conversation drifted to tanks, he felt very strongly that the 130s were vastly better "buoyancy wise" than the 120s. He also said that when it comes to filling them, that even though the 120 and 130 now have the same fill pressure, the 130s...bkz of their internal dimensions, fill cooler and thus achieve better fills right off the bat (i.e. not playing the cooling and top off game).

This is why I really appreciate hearing from all of you about your thoughts and experiences. Hearing first hand from those that use both these tanks is extremely helpful.

Thanks again!!

 

[AquaCat]

The E8-130's have not been available for a few months. I think they're supposed to be available again in April or May. I heard PST didn't anticipate the demand and didn't make enough of them.

Don't "need" a 130? Sheesh!

Really, April or May... hmmm....is that going to be April or May by our calendar or April or May by PST's calendar. I know last year when the E-series came out different sizes were said to be due out early Spring and it went on until at least late summer before they actually did. This was particularly true of the 130s (partly bkz of the Canada D.O.T. stamp). In all fairness however, PST is not alone in this problem of later than forecasted delivery problems.

Do you or anyone know if they finally got Canada's equivalent of the D.O.T. stamp on them? I know last year they were available in the U.S. but not Canada as they were waiting the final review from Canada's DOT. I would imagine they probably have...perhaps this is part of the reason for the demand...a "purchase delay". I know that for people like myself that like to head up to Canada to dive on occasion, this stamp was also a concern. It was rumored that those that bought the early pre-stamp 130s in the U.S.(did not effect the 120s) were told by Canadian dive shops that they would "quietly" fill them until the stamp was approved, but after that they would not. The odd thing was that although the tanks that were stamped were exactly the same as the 130s that were not...those that were not would not be "fill-able" in Canada and no retro-stamping would be permitable.

"Don't "need" a 130? Sheesh!"

Yup, that's what he said.

 

[Vertigo]

Do you or anyone know if they finally got Canada's equivalent of the D.O.T. stamp on them? I know last year they were a

They are available in Canada..with DOT stamp, I just purchased a set. There are not many left.. as you said The PST factory won't ship until May.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Really, April or May... hmmm....is that going to be April or May by our calendar or April or May by PST's calendar. I know last year when the E-series came out different sizes were said to be due out early Spring and it went on until at least late summer before they actually did. This was particularly true of the 130s (partly bkz of the Canada D.O.T. stamp). In all fairness however, PST is not alone in this problem of later than forecasted delivery problems.

This is what happens when you make a great product that everyone wants. PST cant keep up with demand. They increase the number of tanks they produce all the time, and still cant keep up. They have to balance that with having too many tanks, which would then be hydroed and stamped with that date. They dont want to let tanks get "stale". So, every year, we get this "tank crunch", and everyone waits for them to be shipped, and then they all get bought out very quickly. Put your orders in early with your LDS, and have them order them, and the order will be put on a waiting list.
You will get them, sooner or later...

 

[in_cavediver]

Mike, thank you very much for your reply!

Mike, having dived both the 120 and 130...apart from the length issues you mentioned (not caring for the 120's length), could you comment on whether or not you noticed any different buoyancy characteristics...whether the different diameters (E7=7.2" and E8=8.0") created different balance sensations (i.e. different CGs) or different drag sensations or just any difference at all? Do you think a taller diver would find one more preferable over the other?

Well, to re-iterate, I have dove doubles in the LP104's. HP100, and the E-130's. I haven't dove the doubled HP120's (or the new equivalent). I can say that the HP100 are quite a bit smaller than the 104/130 but that doesn't really translate to a significantly narrower profile. In the water, when trimmed correctly, both were equally comfortable. Again, the 120, as a single was just to darn long for me.

Now for trimming. I dive the 104's with no weight. I added an 8lb V-wieght to the 100's to get trimmed. (Kinda's negates that wieght differece too!). Although I haven't dove the 120's. I would guess that they too need a bit of wieght to be neutral when empty. (Check the bouyancy stats, which I don't have handy). Mind you, for me, neutral when empty constitutes about 400 PSI and a drysuit. With a wetsuit, my 104's are dangerous. (very difficult to swim up).

When I went throught the choices, I had either LP or HP tanks to choose from. For my frame, I went the LP 104 route and didn't regret it. Had I been significantly taller, I probably would have gone the LP 121 route. This is as much because of where I prefer to dive and the fill practices there.

I know my LDS owner has told me he can't see why one would "need" a 130...for whatever reasons he does not carry 130s and would probably have to special order them. This complicates things a bit...but whatever.

Thank you very much again Mike, for these reasons I particularly appreciate your and others help!!

Well, to answer the need question. I really don't need the extra gas, I just want it. It translates to more bottom time before hitting thirds. With that, get the tanks you want and will fit you. Special ordering them shouldn't be much of a concern either. I special ordered all of my tanks.

Mike

 

[ScottyK]

For all you locals interested in trying a steel tank, try to get in to Village Divers in Manhattan. We just spent a great afternoon there yesterday getting Jen fitted out with a new Halcyon Eclipse system.

Cal, the owner, is really cool. Not only does he carry all the sizes being discussed here (he will have more of the 130's in the first week of April), he will also:

Let you try anything you want out in the pool for free.

Rent you any size tank to try by the day or week, even doubles sets. If you buy a tank from him, he refunds you 100% of the rental charge!!!

It almost makes going in there first a no brainer. Try a few out, and really know which one trims you out and feels the most comfortable before you lay out $400.

Aquacat- Hope to see you for some local diving, and good luck.

 

[docmartin]

aqua, in case you have not read through it: i had started a thread on the pst tank choices before. take a look.
http://www.scubaboard.com/t45280.html