The 130 / 120 Debate...

[AquaCat]

I have been diving for about 15 years, but sadly never off the coast of NY/NJ...as a local, definitely time to change this!

I have heard that most people dive 120s, true? I am trying to decide between PST E7-120s and E8-130s. I am 6'3" and 220lbs. Some people (particularly in the DIR community) have told me that 130s are definitely, no questions about it, the only way to go (despite the fact that the LP104s no longer exist, they claim the 130s maintain their superior buoyancy characteristics based on "water displacement") ...others say the extra 10cuft., unless really needed, does not justify the added heft/bulk of the 130 and that the 120 is the way to go.

I am left in the middle very confused. Do many people dive 130s here? Can anyone who has dived both please tell me their preference and why?

Thank you very much!

 

[bertschb]

I have the E8-130's and I love them. They aren't that much larger than the 119's. It's really a toss up. They are very similar. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with either of them. I like the extra 11cf but that's just me.

If you want a little extra air get the 130. If it doesn't matter, flip a coin or get what's cheapest.

 

[AquaCat]

I have the E8-130's and I love them. They aren't that much larger than the 119's. It's really a toss up. They are very similar. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with either of them. I like the extra 11cf but that's just me.

If you want a little extra air get the 130. If it doesn't matter, flip a coin or get what's cheapest.

Thanks bertschb for your reply!

If I could ask, how tall are you and do you use a bp/wing...singles or doubles?

Also I was wondering, have you by any chance ever tried the 120s to compare? What is it about the 130s that you like and what made you choose them over say the 120s?

Sorry for all of the questions...thank you very much for your help!

 

[bertschb]

I'm 6'4" and 210lbs. I have a couple of buddies that dive with 130's and they are "average" size. I don't use a BP/wing (yet). There's so much hype over them I figure I must be missing something really important- just haven't figured out what it is yet.

I don't dive doubles yet but I suspect I will when I eventually get the dang BP/wing that I know is coming. I don't think I'll double the 130's but I have a friend that does.

I haven't dove the 119's yet. The tanks are very, very similar. The 130 is 1.6" taller and weighs 2.9lbs more than the 119. I went with the 130 because it was the largest tank available (it has 11cf more air than the 119) and was the same height as my old AL80 which I was very used to. You can't have too much air. With the 130 you should never have to call a dive before your buddy because of air.

Keep one more thing in mind - you'll never know you have a 130 once you're in the water as far as the size and weight goes. If you dive primarily from boats by all means get the 130. I mainly shore dive (including climbing up and down jetties) so the 130 is more of a challenge than an HP80 but the 119 would be just as tough to haul around.

If I was worried about size or weight I wouldn't be comparing the 119 and the 130 because they are virtually the same. I would be looking at a much smaller tank to compare to the 130. Ay least in that case there would be a noticeable difference between the two.

 

[AquaCat]

I'm 6'4" and 210lbs. I have a couple of buddies that dive with 130's and they are "average" size. I haven't dove the 119's yet. The tanks are very, very similar. The 130 is 1.6" taller and weighs 2.9lbs more than the 119. I went with the 130 because it was the largest tank available (it has 11cf more air than the 119) and was the same height as my old AL80 which I was very used to. You can't have too much air. With the 130 you should never have to call a dive before your buddy because of air.

Keep one more thing in mind - you'll never know you have a 130 once you're in the water as far as the size and weight goes. If you dive primarily from boats by all means get the 130. I mainly shore dive (including climbing up and down jetties) so the 130 is more of a challenge than an HP80 but the 119 would be just as tough to haul around.

If I was worried about size or weight I wouldn't be comparing the 119 and the 130 because they are virtually the same. I would be looking at a much smaller tank to compare to the 130. Ay least in that case there would be a noticeable difference between the two.

Thank you bertschb!

It sounds like you and I are very close in size so your experiences are very helpful...thank you!

One of the things I was curious about was a comparison between your E8-130 and E7-120...not so much the E8-119. The E7-120 is about 2.5" longer and 6 pounds lighter than a E8-130.

E7 120s Weight empty - 36.6lbs, Buoyancy empty - neg 1.3lbs, lenght - 28.00"

E8 130s Weight empty - 42.2lbs, Buoyancy empty - neg 1.8lbs, lenght - 25.56"

I have heard that the 120 is very popular among NE ocean divers. Whereas alot of the tech...particularly the DIR crowd says, with the exception of the old LP104, there is no substitute for the 130.

I have been left feeling rather confused wondering whether the shorter, fatter (8" D vs 7.2" D) and heavier 130 is really more "comfortable" to dive than the 120. Whereas the 130 is the same length of an AL 80, the 120 is the same width...but of course longer.

Do you have any experience with the E7-120 or any thoughts on this overall?

Thank you very much!

 

[bertschb]

Ahhhh

I assumed all along you were referring to the E8-119. I have no experience with the E7-120. I've never even seen one.

In my neck of the woods, everybody loves the E8 series from PST. I personally don't know anybody diving the E7's. In fact, I never even really looked at the E7 series when I looked at tanks because all my buddies said E8 - period. I'm just getting back into diving after a 20 year layoff so don't take my advice. Talk to people who know. I just want LOTS of air. In the circle of friends I dive with (several are VERY experienced, some not so experienced) everybody is either buying E8-119s or E8-130's for single tanks. I can't remember what they are buying for doubles.

Having said all of that, I still don't think you'll notice the difference under water. With all the gear I have for cold water diving in the PNW, I'm sure I couldn't tell the difference in either weight or size between the 120, 119 or 130. Five pounds and a couple inches here or there just isn't gonna matter (to me). The extra weight of my E8-130 tank means less lead on my belt. It's a wash.

 

[AquaCat]

Ahhhh

I assumed all along you were referring to the E8-119. I have no experience with the E7-120. I've never even seen one.

...In my neck of the woods, everybody loves the E8 series from PST. I personally don't know anybody diving the E7's. In fact, I never even really looked at the E7 series when I looked at tanks because all my buddies said E8 - period.

... The extra weight of my E8-130 tank means less lead on my belt. It's a wash.

Ahhhh

Excellent...yes, I thought maybe the 119 and 120 tank difference might be confusing things a bit.

Its kind of funny to watch the PST tank process. It kind of reminds me of a Darwinian process. First there were 2 very distinct "species" the LP and HP both made from different metal "blends". Then they became one...same "blend" and same pressure..though maintaining roughly same dimensions. Now with such simialr volumes such as the 119 and 120 (although granted very different dimensions), I bet it is only a matter of time before some of these tanks will become "extinct" from the PST line.

It is also interesting to me how different regions have such different ideas as to what is the "appropriate" tank. Again the NE seems to say HP/E7-120 and it sounds like PNW and Florida say E8-130...

Thank you again bertschb, I most appreciate hearing of your experience with your 130s! So then you don't find the larger diameter and greater weight affects your center of gravity or "balance" (turtling effect) in any appreciable way?

Why do they make these two different tanks...who is more appropriate for one over the other?

I only wish I could try both the 130 and 120 to get a feel for the two. Does anyone else have any experience with these tanks?

 

[bertschb]

I don't want to speak for the gazillion divers here in the PNW. I can only speak for myself and my 10 dive buddies. For all I know, the other 99.99% of the divers in the PNW use AL80's. I doubt it, but you get my point.

So then you don't find the larger diameter and greater weight affects your center of gravity or "balance" (turtling effect) in any appreciable way?

No, but please keep in mind I only have maybe 150 dives under my belt and 2/3rds of those were a long time ago. Once I'm under water I just do my thing. I don't notice being out of balance. Maybe I am and just don't know it.

Why do they make these two different tanks...who is more appropriate for one over the other?

Now that's a great question! I kinda thought the newer E8 series would replace the E7 but I'm not sure about that.

 

[in_cavediver]

Thanks bertschb for your reply!

If I could ask, how tall are you and do you use a bp/wing...singles or doubles?

Also I was wondering, have you by any chance ever tried the 120s to compare? What is it about the 130s that you like and what made you choose them over say the 120s?

Sorry for all of the questions...thank you very much for your help!

Howdy, I'm 5'9" and dive the old LP104's almost exclusively. A buddy had a set of HP100's and then got a new set of the E-130's. I played with the 130's and they were just about identical to the 104's. I dive a BP/wing and doubles with those tanks.

I also have a HP120 as a single tank. I got it before I got doubles and its a pain. It's just to dang long. I briefly thought about doubling 120's and then thought better of it. I'm just not tall enought to make it comfortable. 104's/130's are quite a bit shorter and work for me.

Mike

 

[docmartin]

aqua, you're very tall. the 120s should work like a charm for you. also, i find it interesting that many will harp about the importance of streamlining and minimizing drag and then they double up 130s. not that they are bad tanks but i think the 120s make for a more compact package which may reduce air consumption and definitely helps when trying to get into tight spaces. i amnot sure what's so much better about the 130s buoyancy characteristics. 0.5lb more negative - big whoop. i rather don't schlepp an additional 6lb per tank when out of the water. my vote is for the 120s.