"Term limits" on certifications

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ReefGuy:
Just wondering who would stamp my logbook when I do a beach dive, or dive from a private boat (that's 90% of my diving). I don't keep a current paper log, it's on the computer.
Divers who actually dive can easily show this. (I assume you know how to scroll your own dive computer.) The divers who don't dive can show this as easily too - log book, computer, etc. (Lairs can lie, I know, but those people are not helping themselves...)

Please folks can we focus on the underlined reason why we would do it?
 
NWGratefulDiver:
Hmmm ... if that statistic is for America I would say that it pretty much reflects the overall population statistics.

We have become a nation of "supersized" folk ... :eyebrow:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Not only that, recent studies have finally proven what most of us have already observed - the "officially overweight" (not obese, mind you, but off the top of the standard skinny scale) live longest - the true optimum weight for longevity has been set far too low.
Rick
 
Rick Murchison:
Not only that, recent studies have finally proven what most of us have already observed - the "officially overweight" (not obese, mind you, but off the top of the standard skinny scale) live longest - the true optimum weight for longevity has been set far too low.
Rick

Well, at 5'9" and 245 lbs that means I should live forever ... :wink:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Sorry for being off-topic... I'm also overweight according to the BMI. But I think I need a little extra for the cold water! :D
 
drbill:
It appears....the victim appeared to be in "less than optimal" health. However, it also made me revisit a few certification related issues. Etc.

Dr. Bill

Dr. Bill are you a member of Congress? You should be. I think you hit something here. We must regulate people especially divers who are irresponsible, out of shape and incapable of making any rational decisions. If Corporate Amerca has the Sarbanes-Oxley act to protect the world against the corrupt CEO's, why not the diving world. Therefore, I suggest that we contact Senators: Boxer, Inouye, Graham, Byrd, Reid and Obama to sponsor a bill regulating the dive industry (use their initials as the name of the bill). A new agency will be created ... the Department of Diveland Security. All your points will clearly form the fundamentals of the laws and regulations except for the following changes:

1. Physical Fitness - Why stop at 400 yards, I think that 1000 would be more appropriate, with full gear but no fins. No masks or snorkel too. This will make sure anyone who puts on weight will be able to handle it.

2. Inspections - Why three years between re-certification. We have to get our cars inspected every year.... why not our diving skills. Besides, annual fees are much better.

3. Gear - Same as 2 but clearly every year. Each LDS will perform gear maintenance and check-up. A stamp will be attached to the upper corner of a diver's face mask to indicate that all gear has been checked out. Color coded to enable law enforcement agencies to spot violators.

4. Overall Health - a monthly doctor's certification must be provided as proof to eliminate divers who have cardio problems (heart attacks) and lung issues (smoking, etc.). While we're at it, all divers must have be able to see clearly (reading guages is vital so is finding your dive buddy ... hate to have divers buddy up to a shark) underwater. LDS should have an eye chart behind the counter to check on eyesight. If one fails, a perscription mask is necessary.

WHILE WE'RE AT IT, there are other areas which need to controled by stiffer laws and regulations:

A. Driver Licenses - anyone over the age of 60 has to go through driver's ed and past a driving test.

B. Cyclers - If you haven't been on a bicycle in more than 4 years, you have to get a local police department to verify that you can still ride AND understand that you are subject to vehicle not pedestrian laws. No more of these "it's like riding a bicycle" ... BS.

C. Golfers - If your handicap increases by 10, you have to get re-certified by a golf pro. This will be prevent anyone from getting killed by stray balls.

D. Skiers - Must be able to demonstrate BASIC ski moves (snowplow, gettin on/off ski lift, turns, stop). This certification will be required every five years.

There are other areas which need more rigid enforcement (alchol consumption, dog walking, motor boating, etc.) but I leave it up to other people to suggest that... :wink:

The bottom line is that I am against over-regulation and your suggestion (though fair and logical) is an attempt to regulate human behavior. Do you honestly think that regulations that you proposed will not be broken and divers will not die?

One of the many rules I abide by in diving is a simple one "Know your limitations..." I don't know how you regulate personal accountability. If you attempt to do so, diving will only be availabe to the "young studs in their 20's".

However, you do raise an interesting point about dive instructors/operators/or dive shops. Perhaps regulation of individuals or businesses that have a direct impact on a diver is valid. I'm not familiar with the requirements here but I suspect there are some already in place.
 
NWGratefulDiver:
I will disagree with ya Dr. Bill ... for purely selfish reasons.

First off, one of the attractions (to me) of scuba diving is that it's pretty much free of government regulations. Get the government involved in anything and before you know it you'll be up to your elbows in rules that make little or no sense ... and paying plenty for the jobs of the people who'll be charged with enforcing them. You'll have bureaucrats who don't even dive writing laws simply because they seemed "logical" at the time ... without a second thought for the unintended consequences.

Second off, not everyone uses a "sign & stamp" logbook ... nor do I think they should have to. I've logged over 1,200 dives in the last four years and not one of them has a stamp ... does that mean I should have to get BOW recertified? I don't think so.

Third ... scuba diving is one of the last bastions of personal responsibility left in America. If people choose not to be responsible then let natural selection run its course ... it was intended as a means to keep stupid genes out of the pool.

The last thing the scuba industry needs is government trying to protect us from ourselves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

i agree with everything bob said.

plus there are people out there with their own cylinders of gases, their own compressors and their own boats who dively largely independently of any dive shops or dive operations.

and if you lapse your BOW and don't send in your logbook entries to recertify are you going to have to take a refresher course? that might end up with the highly amusing sight of divers who regularly dive to 200 fsw who are in 'BOW refresher' courses because they want to go on a vacation dive...

more likely what is going to happen is someone in a given circle is going to get whatever creds are necessary to 'stamp' logbook entries, and then just have logbook signing parties every few months with their friends... of course there will be fees to pay, i'm sure which we still wouldn't be able to get rid of...

i really hate this idea...
 
WAIT A MINUTE FOLKS... who said anything about GOVERNMENT being involved here? My proposal was based on self-enforcement through dive agencies and the dive shops who fill tanks. Obviously some of you seem to have gotten a bit off the intended track!

I spoke yesterday with one of my instructor friends. He is also a sky diving coach. In that arena he MUST sky dive once within every 30 day period to keep his rating. Very restrictive requirements, all enforced within the industry... not by government.

Dr. Bill
 
DiveGolfSki:
Dr. Bill are you a member of Congress? You should be. I think you hit something here. We must regulate people especially divers who are irresponsible, out of shape and incapable of making any rational decisions. If Corporate Amerca has the Sarbanes-Oxley act to protect the world against the corrupt CEO's, why not the diving world. Therefore, I suggest that we contact Senators: Boxer, Inouye, Graham, Byrd, Reid and Obama to sponsor a bill regulating the dive industry (use their initials as the name of the bill). A new agency will be created ... the Department of Diveland Security. All your points will clearly form the fundamentals of the laws and regulations except for the following changes:

1. Physical Fitness - Why stop at 400 yards, I think that 1000 would be more appropriate, with full gear but no fins. No masks or snorkel too. This will make sure anyone who puts on weight will be able to handle it.

2....

Finally, someone got it right.
 
drbill:
is also a sky diving coach. In that arena he MUST sky dive once within every 30 day period to keep his rating. Very restrictive requirements, all enforced within the industry... not by government. Dr. Bill
Your right! someone/sport/agency did get it right!
 
drbill:
WAIT A MINUTE FOLKS... who said anything about GOVERNMENT being involved here? My proposal was based on self-enforcement through dive agencies and the dive shops who fill tanks. Obviously some of you seem to have gotten a bit off the intended track!

I spoke yesterday with one of my instructor friends. He is also a sky diving coach. In that arena he MUST sky dive once within every 30 day period to keep his rating. Very restrictive requirements, all enforced within the industry... not by government.
What happens if he goes 30 days without a skydive?

Does he lose the ability to get on a plane?
Does he lose the ability got get his reserve repacked?
Can he still skydive, but not coach/instruct?

Enquiring minds want to know.
 
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